formation which reached them, and acting on the notoriety of the fact, that Juries did not hesitate to discharge their duty, Government had brought forward the Bill as it now stood. A noble Lord on the cross-benches stated, that the conduct of the Juries at the last spring Assizes had satisfied him, that the trial of offences might safely be left to the Courts of Common-law. The Change of Venue Bill was founded on the same apprehension which gave rise to the Courts-martial clausesnamely, that Juries would not venture to do their duty; but the grounds of that apprehension being now removed, there did not appear to be any sufficient reason for re-enacting the Change of Venue Bill any more than the Courts-martial clauses. Whether, in the present improved con

Lord Lieutenant, nor the Judges of Assize, nor the Lieutenants of counties, nor the Assistant Barristers, nor the Magistrates, had given any information which could enable the House to understand on what precise grounds the alteration had been made. He hoped that information existed which could be alleged in justification of the change, and if the noble Earl stated, that he was in possession of such information, he should be satisfied, although it were not adduced. Last Session, simultaneously with the Coercion Bill, the noble Earl brought forward a measure for changing the venue for one year, and he had suggested to the noble Earl the propriety of continuing that Bill for five years. The noble Earl said, he thought it better to pass the Change of Venue Bill for one year in the first instance, as an accom-dition of Ireland, they would renew the panying measure to the Coercion Bill, but it would be open to any noble Lord to call for the renewal of it this Session, if it were considered desirable. Their Lordships were about to dispense with that part of the measure (the Court-martial clauses) which was last year considered so necessary; they were about to leave cases for trial in the hands of the Courts of Law, as usual; and he wished to learn from the noble Earl, whether, under such circumstances, he considered it necessary to propose the renewal of the Change of Venue Bill.

Earl Grey said, it was true, that the ground on which the extraordinary power of trying offences by Courts-martial was called for, consisted partly in the intimidation which prevented Jurics from discharging their duty; and he was certainly liable to blame for omitting, through a defect of memory, to explain the grounds on which it was intended not only to leave out that clause, but to abstain from a renewal of the Change of Venue Bill. There were certainly no papers formally applicable to the point, among those laid before Parliament; but he could assure the noble Earl and the House, that the Government were not inattentive to the matter, and that they saw reason to be satisfied, that the powers conferred by the Protection Act might be left to the ordinary tribunals of the country. It was under this impression, and acting on the information that had reached them on the subject, that Ministers recommended the omission of the Courts-martial clauses. Among other authorities he might refer to that of Lord Oxmantown, as proposing, that offences should be disposed of by the ordinary tribunals. From the general in

Change of Venue Bill, it was for their Lordships to consider; but he was inclined to think that Parliament should do what it could to avoid a recurrence to such a measure. He did not at present propose to renew that Bill, but if it should appear necessary to do so, in consequence of any change of circumstances, he would not shrink from his duty.

The Duke of Buckingham expressed the deep regret which he felt at finding himself again obliged to concur in a Bill so much opposed to and so destructive of the best principles of the Constitution. He had stated last year, that not being able to place confidence in the Ministry of the day, he nevertheless felt bound to assent to their unconstitutional Coercion Bill, because he thought that the safety of the country required such a measure. If he felt a degree of difficulty then with respect to the Bill, it was doubled and trebled now, when the Administration was placed in hands in which he could see no security whatever for the safety of any of our establishments. He might here observe, that whatever difference might have arisen between some of the Ministers on the subject, the Marquess Wellesley (as appeared from the papers on the Table) had never ceased to express auxiety for the renewal of the present measure. In agreeing to the Bill, he felt that Ireland was severely punished for having listened to the appeals made to her passions, and attended to the cries "to agitate," which had proceeded from various quarters the highest as well as the lowest.

his

Earl Grey said, that the noble Duke acknowledged that the state of Ireland was such as to make the re-enactment of a

no good moral effect whatever. The object of the Bill was to repeal so much of the law as gave the option to Judges in England and Ireland to hang the bodies of certain criminals in chains, and to direct, instead, that they should be buried within. the precincts of the prison. If there must be vengeance on the judgments of the law, surely burying the bodies within the precincts of the prison was carrying that vengeance as far as it ought to be pursued. The noble Lord concluded by moving the second reading of the Bill, which was agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Monday, July 7, 1834.

severe law-such he must admit the pre-loss to find any reason for continuing such sent Bill to be-absolutely necessary; but, a practice, the only effect of which was, although he acknowledged this to be a that of scaring children, and brutalizing very severe law, he did not wish to hazard the minds of the people. It could produce the excitement of an unnecessary degree of feeling against it by describing the measure, with the noble Duke, as a violation and destruction of the Constitution. He acknowledged the Bill, however, to be one of great severity, beyond the principles and ordinary practice of the Constitution, and such as could be justified only by a peculiar and urgent state of things. On this ground the noble Duke himself concurred in the measure, although he felt disposed to place less confidence now than ever in Ministers. He did not expect the noble Duke's approbation. He felt satisfied that the noble Duke consented to strengthen the hands of Ministers with powers which he admitted to be necessary, although they excited his disgust. As to the use that Ministers would make of those powers, he appealed to the use that they had already made of them, and he asked, whether the powers of this unhappy law, so he would term it, had not been exercised with the greatest moderation, though with all necessary firmness? Could there be any doubt that Ministers would act in future as they had done heretofore? But there seemed to be some strange disquiet in the noble Duke's mind, the source of which he did not well understand, for, dreading the designs of Ministers against existing establishments, the noble Duke appeared to have a latent fear, that the present measure might be turned against them, in what manner, however, was not very intelligible. The noble Duke talked of appeals in favour of agitation from quarters high and low. It was to prevent agitation and its consequences, which he (Earl Grey) had always opposed, that the present law was proposed.

Of the noble Duke's confidence, he was unhappily deprived, and must bear the loss as he might; but he should persevere in doing to the utmost of his ability, and in the best way he could, his duty to his Sovereign and his country.

The House went into Committee on the Bill, the Clauses of which were agreed to.

The House resumed.

BODIES OF CRIMINALS.] Lord Suffield, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said, that its object was to abolish the practice of hanging criminals in chains -a practice unsuited to the present state of public feeling. Indeed, he was at a

MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Four Courts, Dub-
Petitions presented. By Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE, Mr.

lin; and Turnpike Acts Continuance (Ireland).

MILES, Mr. WILBRAHAM, and Earl JERMYN, from Spilsby, and other Places,-for Support to the Church of England. By Mr. PELHAM, from Horncastle, against the Church Rates Bill.-By Mr. MILES, from Congressbury; and by Mr. F. PALMER, from Reading,-against the Amendment of the Sale of Beer Act.-By Mr. DuoDALE, from Tamworth, for the issue of 11. Notes.-By Mr. DUGDALE, Mr. PELHAM, Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE, Lord ROBERT MANNERS, and Mr. HALFORD, from several Places, for Relief to the Agriculturists-By Mr. H, MAXWELL, and Mr. LEFROY, from several Places in Ireland, in favour of the Established Church of Ireland.By Mr. R. STEUART, from Haddington, against the Bankrupts (Scotland) Bill.-By Mr. DAVENPORT, from Wesleyans at Burslem, for Relief to the Dissenters, and for a General Registration; and by Mr. PELHAM, from Manufacturers at Cleckeaton, for the Repeal of Duty on Olive Oil; and from Lincoln, for the Removal of all Restrictions on Silver payments.

SUPPRESSION OF DISTURBANCES(IRELAND).] Lord Althorp brought up documents indorsed "Papers relating to they be printed, his Lordship said, that it the state of Ireland." In moving, that was due to his right hon. friend, the Secre tary for Ireland, (Mr. Littleton), to state, that in the communication he had had with the hon. and learned member for Dublin, (Mr. O'Connell) he had good grounds for saying, that the question regarding the insertion of certain clauses in the Coercion Bill was still under the consideration of the Cabinet. He had also good grounds for expressing his hope, that those clauses would not be inserted in it; but he had no reason whatever to state, and he (Lord Althorp) believed the hon. Member had not stated, that the opinion of Ministers had been made up for

alluded to the report in order to give the noble Lord opposite an opportunity of contradicting it if it were unfounded. He referred merely to the current opinion out of doors. He regretted, that Ministers went on from day to day finding time to

the omission of those clauses; because he had had no communication with his noble friend at the head of the Government, and had no reason to believe, that his noble friend had a doubt as to the necessity of them. With respect to the communication itself, he should not be inclined him-introduce Coercion Bills, but not to fulfil self to say, that there was any indiscretion on the part of the Secretary for Ireland in informing the hon. and learned member for Dublin, that the question was not decided, and in cautioning him not to commit himself until he knew what was the intention of Government. As to any further communication between them, upon that he (Lord Althorp) would make no observation. His right hon. friend (Mr. Littleton) had said what he thought necessary on the subject, and he should, therefore, add nothing. It was likewise due to his right hon. friend to mention, that on Saturday he tendered the resignation of his office; but he still held it at the request of Lord Grey. Ministers were, of course, anxious that he should continue in the situation he occupied ; they valued the assistance he had given much too highly to be willing to lose it. He moved, that the papers be printed.

any of their pledges. He would now repeat the question he had asked five times before, whether the Local Courts Bill was, or was not, to be brought forward in the present Session? That among many other measures really beneficial, was likely to be passed by, for the only measure which Ministers seemed disposed to carry through was the Coercion Bill. As far as he could see, it was the only measure, and it was so contrary to every principle on which the House ought to act, that he believed no man would have consented to support the present Government if he had not felt confident, that, instead of such a measure, plans calculated to allay irritation and excitement, and to render the presence of so large a number of military in Ireland unnecessary, would have been adopted. Ireland ought not to be treated as a conquered country, but as a part of the empire having equal laws and equal privileges with the other parts of the empire. He hoped that the papers just laid upon the Table would make out sufficient grounds on which to rest the renewal of the Coercion Bill, at a time when it was anticipated by many that the first measure of the kind would also have been the last.

Mr. Hume was extremely happy to hear, that his right hon. friend the Secretary for Ireland had been warranted in what he had said. He was not present at the time, for the matter was concluded just after he entered the House; but he was perfectly confident that his right hon. friend would stand clear in the eyes of Lord Althorp: As to the rumour that Parliament and of the country. He was the noble Earl at the head of the Governsure that his right hon. friend had in- ment had alone been in favour of the Cotended it as an act of kindness towards ercion Bill, such statements could only the hon. and learned member for Dublin, be matters of mere surmise, inasmuch as meaning, if possible, to allay the irritation the individual opinions of members of of his mind at the renewal of the Coercion the Cabinet were, of course, never diBill. He must say, however, that he re- vulged it would, therefore, be quite ingretted that any Cabinet should exist consistent with his duty to give the House apparently so indecisive and so uncertain any information upon the point. When as to the course it meant to adopt, as the subject came under discussion, Governto place a member of the Government in ment would be bound to give adequate the situation in which his right hon. friend reasons, or the House would not adopt the had been placed a few nights ago. He Bill. He could not admit, that the only had heard with great surprise, that the re- measure Ministers had endeavoured to newal of the Coercion Bill was the mea-carry, with regard to Ireland, was the Cosure of one individual in the Government, who would have resigned his situation in the Councils of his Majesty had the other members of the Cabinet not concurred with him. This might or might not be true; but he had heard, that it was entirely the act of Lord Grey, and he had

ercion Bill, and hon. Members present must be aware that others had been pressed forward. He was sorry to be obliged to answer, that it would not be possible to bring in the Local Courts Bill this Session.

Mr. Robinson would not make any

nothing for Ireland. What had he done | It was not enough for Ministers to throw for Ireland in the present Session? What their papers upon the Table. How, or had he attempted? The Secretary for when, or by whom they were concocted, Ireland, on a former night, had talked he knew not; but he did know that of four measures; but as to the Reform they had changed their intentions, and Bill, Ireland had been insulted by the that those who were once and recently difference made in favour of England opposed to it, were now in favour of the and Scotland, and to her detriment. Bill. What new and strange events had The striking off of ten Bishops was no-occurred to produce this calamitous thing, and because it was nothing, he change? This of itself was worth inhad voted against it. In the Vestry-quiry, and he moved therefore" that the cess, there was an abatement of 35,000l. documents just presented be referred to a-year-a mighty boon! but all that a Select Committee, and that they report could be granted to Ireland. What had their opinion thereupon to the House." been done about tithes? The Bill was brought in in February, altered in March, and in June it was so utter a nondescript, that the Secretary at War was obliged to receive two or three promptings before he could speak of it. The much boasted Commission had not yet gone to the spot where its inquiries were to begin; but eight or ten Commissioners had been appointed, and that was all, and seemed to be thought enough. Yet the noble Lord talked of what had been done for Ireland this year. It was turning Ireland into contempt it was laughing Ireland to scorn, when the noble Lord thus ventured to indulge himself. Ministers would think of nothing but Coercion-nothing but Coercion and delusion for Ireland. The people of Ireland could not fail to know it: they saw people keep their places, whether they were against or in favour of Coercion; and, in fact, that it was treated by Ministers as a matter of small moment. He hoped, however, that the House would not so treat it, and that it would not hesitate in acceding to his Motion for a Committee. He wanted no delay; he was ready to proceed instantly-to work day and night, but it was too late for Ministers to complain of delay when they had postponed the Bill till July. If the House had one particle of feeling for Ireland-one particle of that feeling so much vaunted, and which had been resounded from one end of the country to the other, if it had the slightest disposition to do justice to Ireland, Whig, Tory, Conservative, and Radical would all join in supporting the Motion for Inquiry. He called upon them all to demand evidence before they convicted his country. The least they could do would be to give Ireland a trial before they passed sentence upon her by passing the Coercion Bill.

Lord Althorp observed, that the remark of the hon. member for Middlesex, that Ministers had done nothing, was not meant by him to apply particularly to Ireland. He (Lord Althorp) had not said, and had not intended to say, that any measures had been applied specifically to Ireland. With regard to the Motion, it was not his design to concede what was required since the papers upon the Table were such as Government thought would justify the course they proposed to pursue. If, on consideration, it should appear to the House, that the documents did not warrant the renewal of the Coercion Bill, it would be rejected. Upon that test, Ministers were disposed to rest the measure, and, in justification of the renewal of the Coercion Bill, they laid the papers before the House. As to what might have occurred since the 18th of April, the proper time for stating the grounds of any change of opinion would be when the measure came regularly before the House: it would then be shown, that Ministers had not acted in the inconsistent manner which had been supposed. They had most cautiously and anxiously looked at the whole subject; they had duly considered every doubt suggested as to the extent of the measure, in order to ascertain if that extent were necessary; and he was sure, that the country would not blame them for hesitating as long as there was reason for hesitation.

Mr. Henry Grattan said, that whatever uncertainty might have prevailed amongst the Ministers, certain it was, that the measure contemplated to be again renewed was most unconstitutional in its character and object; and he would venture to say, that in the annals of Parliamentary history, there was not an instance in which the liberties of a whole country were