then stated, that he could not allow that petition to be received, because it contained a passage from a speech delivered in their Lordships' House. The Earl of Winchilsea admitted, that the doctrine laid down by the noble and learned Lord was correct; but he objected to its being only partially acted on. He could not see why that which was allowed to be given to the public might not be quoted in a petition. If it were declared, that not one word of their proceedings should go out to the public, he could understand the principle, and he would bow to it; but if they allowed their proceedings to be used in one respect, he could not conceive why they should not allow the same latitude in another. If acted on at all, let the principle be acted on generally. He certainly was not aware that the words alluded to were in the petition when he presented it. He laid it before their Lordships as emanating from a body of Dissenters who expressed their anxiety to support the established institutions of the country. The Lord Chancellor said, the difference between the mere publication of their proceedings and the noticing them in a petition was this-they shut their eyes on what appeared out of doors-they had no right to know anything about it; but when matter of this nature was inserted in a petition, it was thrust directly into their faces. The Bishop of Exeter said, if this petition had expressly recited any words as having been used in that House by a Member of the House, such a proceeding would be irregular, and it ought to be rejected; but the petition did not state that they were uttered by a Member of that House; and though the noble Earl claimed them as his, it did not follow that other persons might not have advanced the same sentiments. For his own part, he had no doubt that the petitioners alluded to what had occurred in that House; but, while he respected everything that was connected with their Lordships' privileges, he thought that in a case. of this nature, when a petition related to a subject the most precious-the subject of religion-their Lordships ought to be very tardy in rejecting a petition on any other than the most indisputable grounds. But, supposing that this petition did not recall any words which had been used in that House, or by any Member of that House, still he thought that the petition must be rejected on another ground, because (though the passage had not excited the notice, or called forth the animadversion, of the noble Earl) the petitioners charged certain Members of the Imperial Parliament with perjury. That was the part which, in his opinion, rendered the petition unfit to be received by that House. He therefore should not object to its rejection on the latter, but not on the former, ground. The Earl of Shaftesbury stated his conviction, that consistently with their Lordships' privileges, the petition could not be received. The Earl of Winchilseu had no doubt at all about the fact, that allusion was made in the petition to what had been said by a Member of that House, where the expression "the spirit of the age must be followed" was quoted; but let the House consider the situation in which they were placed, when they allowed their sentiments to be noticed in one shape and not in another. Earl Grey said, he had never been willing to stand in the way of any petition; and in this instance he was not inclined to make an objection on his own account. He had noticed the matter, lest a precedent might be established for permitting allusion to be made in petitions to what had occurred in that House. With respect to what the right reverend Prelate had stated, he did not think that it removed the difficulty. The right reverend Prelate said, that it was not expressly set forth in the petition that the words quoted were used by a Member of that House, but he affirmed the proposition, when he stated that the words were of such a nature as to leave no doubt on his mind that they had been used by a Member of that House. Now, in a Court of Common law, if it could be proved to the satisfaction of the Court and Jury, that the general meaning and intent of certain words were such as to leave no doubt that they had been used in a certain place, and on a certain occasion, such evidence was deemed conclusive. When those words were used which had been referred to, the individual who used them was speaking in the discharge of his duty in that House. It therefore appeared to him, that with a due regard to their privileges, they could not receive this petition. With respect to the other point of which the right reverend Prelate had taken notice, he did not put the same construction on the passage as the right reverend Prelate had done. The allegation there made was quite general. The petitioners alJeged, that certain persons professing the Roman Catholic religion had acted in a manner contrary to their oath, which bound them not to use any power that might be granted to them for the purpose of overthrowing the Protestant religion. Such a statement was too vague to be noticed. The petition was withdrawn. SUPPRESSION OF DISTURBANCES (IRELAND).] Earl Grey rose to postpone until to-morrow the Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Report of the Irish Coercion Bill. The Duke of Buckingham expressed his surprise at the postponement without any reason having been assigned for taking such a course. It must be in the recollection of their Lordships, that the day had very nearly arrived when the Bill now in existence would expire. They had been told of the absolute necessity for the renewal of that Bill as soon as possible, and now a delay was requested. It had been rumoured that doubts at one time had arisen as to the necessity which existed for passing this Bill; but it had since been collected from other sources, that the necessity was admitted still to exist. A delay of even twenty-four hours was important with reference to a measure which was stated to be indispensable for the preservation of the security, safety, and peace of the country. He was surprised, that the noble Earl had offered no explanation on the subject, and he felt that the noble Earl was bound, under the circumstances of the case, to state some reason for his very extraordinary request. Earl Grey said, that if, by the delay of twenty-four hours, the safety of the country was likely to be affected, that certainly would be a sufficient reason to justify the noble Duke in calling for an explanation. The short way, however, to meet that point was, to state his conviction that the delay called for could have no such effect. He did not think it possible, that the noble Duke could conceive that he would, at this period, ask even for a day's postponement of the measure, without having sufficient reasons for doing so. Those reasons, however, he must decline stating at that moment. But, in moving for the discharge of the Order of the Day, he would state, that he was as strongly impressed as he ever was with respect to the necessity of passing this measure in its present form, with all its provisions and all its powers. He hoped, therefore, that their Lordships would extend to him that indulgence which he required, and postpone the consideration of the Report until to-morrow. The Duke of Buckingham said, if the noble Earl would state what the reason was which rendered this delay necessary, he should have no objection to it. The noble Earl had declared the absolute necessity of the measure yesterday, and he should like to know what was his reason for putting it off to-day. The Motion was agreed to. The Poor-laws' Amendment Bill was also, on the Motion of Earl Grey, postponed. FRIENDLY SOCIETIES.] On the Motion of Mr. Ord, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the the Friendly Societies Bill. On the 2nd Clause being put, Mr. Bernal took that opportunity to make several objections to the general principle of the Bill. Few subjects were more difficult to legislate upon than that of Friendly Societies; scarcely any two societies were agreed among themselves as to the rules and regulations by which they should be governed. All which the Legislature had to do with the question was, to see that the operation of the rules which were made by them was not injurious to the rest of the community. Several Representatives of Friendly Societies had waited upon him on the subject of the Bill, and the great objection they entertained to this clause was, that it proposed a separate account should be kept of all monies expended by the Friendly Societies for any other purposes than affording relief in cases of sickness and old age. To this provision the delegates. Mr. Wilks said, that those hon. Members who were desirous to relieve the Friendly Societies from the restraints under which they now laboured would feel this clause worthy their support. These institutions were of the greatest importance to the country, and were well calculated to counteract many of the evils of the Poor-laws. Mr. Baines had been informed by a gaoler in a populous district, situate in the county of York, that out of 10,000 prisoners who had been committed to his charge, not one member of a Friendly Society was ever to be found among their number, This he considered a very striking instance of the great advantage which had resulted from these Societies. It appeared to him that a facility would be given by the Bill to the principle upon which these Societies were founded, and he should therefore give it his cordial support. Mr. Bernal, finding that the opinion of the Committee was against him would not divide on the clause. He had discharged his duty in stating his objections to the Bill. The Clause was agreed to. Mr. Forster proposed a clause to regulate the investment of the funds of Friendly Societies. The House resumed, and the Report was brought up. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.] Lord Morpeth, in moving the Resolution of which he had given notice, that for the remainde rof the Session, Orders of the Day should have precedence of notices, said that in bringing forward a Motion for the express purpose of saving the time of the House, he should not address it at any length; indeed the subject was one which, at this period of the Session, required little to be said in its support; however as he was determined to take the sense of the House upon it, he would briefly state the grounds on which he brought it forward. In the first place, for a precedent, he would refer to a similar motion which he proposed, and which the House adopted, last Session. Then as to the necessity for such a Motion, he thought that that was obvious. Whatever differences of opinion might exist as to the change that had taken place in the Constitution of the House, it would be agreed by all that it stood upon a totally different footing from formerly. Then the conducting of the whole business was vested in the leader of the two parties into which the House was divided. But now the House was divided into various and different parties, and there were numbers of stragglers-he meant not the phrase in an offensive sense-who considered themselves amenable to no party banner at all. Notices without number, and of every shade of variety, appeared on the books, not representing the concentrated views of a party, but the individual opinions and sentiments of the respective members who had given such notices. The result was, that now, approaching the dog-days, there was no diminution of such notices, and that the public business was in every way retarded. He thought, that under such circumstances Parliament would be justified in adopting some definite arrangement upon the subject for future Sessions. In his opinion the practice that had been adopted in regard to private business might be advantageously extended to the public business of the House. The Motion which he was about to submit was, however, limited to the present Session. As might be expected, each individual Member who had a notice on the books was always ready to admit, that the public business should take precedence of all other notices but his own. In fact, no one would give up his own Motion, and the public business was retarded. To get rid of such Motions the House was frequently counted out as on the 8th and 16th of May, the 10th, 17th, and 24th of June, and the 3rd of July, and thus in the very heart of the Session, a whole week was lost. On all such occasions too the House was counted out at an early hour. He could not be charged with having taken the House by surprise, and his proposition, which he should conclude by moving, was, "that for the remainder of the Session, Orders of the Day should take precedence of notices of motion." that so important a privilege of the Representatives of the people should be given up. He should therefore most certainly oppose the Motion. Mr. O'Connell said, that if he stood alone he would divide the House against the proposition. It was a curious coincidence that this proposition should be made just as it was proposed to hurry the Bill through the House which took away the liberties of the people of Ireland. He could tell the noble Lord, that his plan could not succeed if carried, nor should it succeed, for hon. Members would certainly take the more inconvenient course of moving the Motions which they contemplated by way of Amendments upon the Orders of the Day. Formerly motions always took precedence, but at length three days were appropriated to Orders, and now the remaining two days were sought to be added, though on those days when the Motions to be brought forward were unpalatable to the Government, the House had been counted out. The Government whipper-in had then stood at the door of the House to prevent Members from entering, and thus even now the House was deprived of its old constitutional mode of proceeding. He hoped either that the Motion would be abandoned by the noble Lord, or that the House would reject it. Mr. Hume said, that if the House'should Mr. Buckingham had suffered from the adopt the Resolution proposed by the House having been counted out; but he noble Lord, it would preclude the pos- would not complain, though he conceived sibility of hon. Members bringing forward it to be a mean course of defeating or any new matter, however important, be- evading the discussion of a question. cause the Bills which his Majesty's Go- He deprecated such a practice on imvernment now had before the House would portant motions such as that submitted occupy every hour of the time which yet by the hon. member for Liverpool on the remained of the present Session. He subject of the East India trade, and that hoped the House would hesitate before with reference to the currency. With it adopted the Resolution, as it would respect to the Motion now before the drive hon. Members to the inconvenient House he should oppose it. alternative of bringing forward their Motions as Amendments upon the Orders of the Day. It had been very convenient for the Government to have the House counted out upon any discussion that was unpalatable to them, and the adoption of this proposition would enable his Majesty's Government to defer bringing in their Bills for the future until towards the end of the Session, and then get some Member to assist them by moving such a proposition as the present. For his own part, he would rather that the House should sit for the next two months than Mr. Poulett Thomson repelled the charge, that the Government had obtained the counting-out of the House on the two occasions which had been alluded to. On both occasions he had been present, and with respect to one-he meant the Motion of the hon. member for Liverpool-he felt deep regret, that the discussion had been so interrupted, because it allowed the statement of the hon. member for Liverpool to go forth to the public without a reply on the part of the Government. Mr. Tennyson said, the Motion would. interfere with the ancient and undoubted rights of the people conferred on their representatives. While he protested against the innovation upon the privileges of the House, he left it to hon. Members to use their discretion in bowing to the urgency of public affairs. If, however, the proposition were carried, he should make a point of submitting a Motion without any notice whatever. Sir John Wrottesley concurred in the sentiments expressed by the right hon. member for Lambeth. Parliament had, however, already sat five months, and in that period sufficient time had been given for hon. Members to bring forward any measures of importance. With respect to not making or rather counting out the House, he begged to say, that this step had last week been taken under peculiar circumstances. The House would remember, that the right hon. Gentleman who filled the chair had sat on the previous day from 12 to 3 o'clock, and again from 5 till half-past 4 o'clock in the inorning; and though the right hon. Gentleman would be the last to complain, yet the House ought to pay some deference to his feelings, health, and convenience. Mr. Robinson objected to the Motion, though he hoped, as it had been submitted to the House, that hon. Members whose names appeared with notices of Motions on the Order-book, would be induced to suspend them. Rather than call for so fatal a precedent against the privileges of the House as would ensue from the adoption of this proposition, he trusted the noble Lord would, after this conversation, consent to withdraw it. If not, he should feel it his duty on principle to vote against the Motion. Sir Robert Peel did not think it unreasonable that, in the present state of public business, some course should be pursued by which the attention of the House should be devoted to it. He thought the public looked to the disposal of the Orders of the Day with quite as deep an interest as on any other description of public business, though no one ought to be prevented from bringing forward any Motion which might be important. This, however, ought to be left to the judgment, common sense, and good feeling of hon. Members themselves, for he could not believe that any good could result from such a regulation as was proposed. The Order-book at present contained so many notices for each night, that it was impossible to know which would be brought forward. The list for this night consisted of twenty notices, including notices of clauses; and though he had been assured last night by the hon. member for Sheffield (Mr. Buckingham), whose notice stood first, that he was determined to bring it forward this evening, yet he (Sir Robert Peel) had entertained somehow the internal conviction, that the hon. Member would not do so. True enough, his opinion was not ill-founded, and his confidence in the hon. Gentleman's good sense, which exceeded his confidence in the hon. Gentleman's promises, had been justified. He trusted, the noble Lord would leave the subject to the discretion of hon. Members, rather than call for a vote upon his proposition. Mr. Secretary Rice said, that much convenience would result from hon. Members not pressing motions which could lead to no practical effect. As to the imputation, that this Motion was made to favour the Government, other Members had as much interest in the Orders of the Day being admitted to precedence as the Government. For his own part, he was indifferent whether the noble Lord's Motion was carried, or hon. Gentlemen, in their discretion, consented to give way to the public convenience. Mr. Baring objected to the Motion. As yet the noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had not brought forward his Budget, and in giving a general notice the noble Lord had fixed on no particular day, and he had in consequence been unable to move for certain Papers relative to the mode of conducting the financial business of the country. He had asked the noble Lord for those papers, but the noble Lord thought it his duty to refuse them. Lord Morpeth, in reply, said, that he really found nothing so difficult to collect as the sense of the House. He found that every Member felt the inconvenience which attended the fact of Motions having precedence, but was unwilling in his own case to give way. Whatever motives might be assigned to him, he had no wish but to consult the convenience of the House, and it was his opinion, after the experience of this and the last Session, that some such measure was absolutely necessary to expedite public business. As to his accidental co-operation with the Government, as the hon. and learned member for Dublin was pleased to term |