was a difficult question; but he would | repealed-relief could be afforded to the maintain, that it was the duty of the labouring and manufacturing classes of House and of the Government to devise the country. some means for relieving the distress under which this branch of the silk-trade, as well as the glovers of Worcester and the hand-loom weavers, laboured. The right hon. Gentleman, instead of throwing the onus on his hon. friend who had brought forward this Motion of suggesting some plan of relief, should, as a member of the Government, have come forward with some plan of his own for the purpose. The right hon. Gentleman should bear in mind, that he now belonged to a Ministry which opposed the repeal of the Cornlaws. It was impossible to dispute the justice of what was put forward by the manufacturers on this subject-namely, that if they were to suffer from the policy adopted by the Government,-if they were to be exposed to the competition of foreigners, then, in God's name, let them have cheap bread and cheap food. There was no answering that argument. They certainly were bound to give the people cheap subsistence, if they could not afford them employment and high wages. Was not the right hon. Gentleman, and the Ministry with which he was connected, opposed to any remission of taxes, by which alone they could obtain relief? It was impossible to relieve the people, unless by a remission of taxes, and by a repeal of the Corn-laws. They were now approaching to such a state, that, unless something were done for the relief of this class of persons, the monopoly of the Corn-laws must be abolished, and there must be a complete and thorough revision and commutation of the taxes. It was a melancholy thing to see those classes of the industrious population of the country suffering under such distress. He was determined, when he next met his constituents, to advise them not to apply to that House for prohibition as a means of relieving them, as he agreed with the right hou. Gentleman that no prohibitory system, however strict, would keep out those articles, and that circumstances stronger than the laws would force them into the country. He would advise them to apply for a relief from taxation. It was only by a remission and commutation of taxes, and by some relaxation of the Corn-laws -for he did not mean to say, that, with the peculiar burthens which the land had upon it, the Corn-laws should be entirely VOL. XXIV. {Series} Third Mr. Poulett Thomson said, the question before the House was of a very confined and limited description. It involved the propriety of establishing a prohibitory system, not applicable to the silk-trade generally, but to this particular branch of manufacture. To this point the arguments of the hon. member for Coventry were directed, and on this question alone was the House called upon to decide. Under these circumstances, he was sure the House would see the propriety of not entering into general topics connected with free trade (which could have no application at present), still less of discussing the Corn-laws, and, least of all, of entering into the question of the general taxation of the country. On all those points, when a fit and proper opportunity should occur, he should not be the last man to intrude his opinions upon this House. On this occasion, however, it would be much more convenient if he limited himself to the simple question introduced by the hon. member for Coventry. He must own, that he was surprised to hear the hon. member for Warwickshire (Mr. Dugdale) introduce the subject of free trade with respect to this particular article, especially after the speech of the hon. member for Coventry. Was the hon Gentleman aware, that the very article, the introduction of which he wished to prohibit, was now taxed to the extent of from forty to sixty per cent? It was originally stated, be it remembered, that the protection should not exceed thirty per cent, but, in consequence of the alteration which had taken place in the value of the article, the duty had increased to the amount he had just mentioned. The hon. Gentleman who seconded the Motion seemed likewise to have entirely overlooked all the arguments which were urged by the hon. Member who moved it. What was the argument of the hon. member for Coventry? "Talk to me of protection, said he; no, we have got that already, and we find it to be utterly and entirely inefficacious for the purposes at which we aim; consequently, I call upon you, not to protect these manufactures, for such protection is perfectly worthless, but at once to establish a total prohibition." Really the hon. Gentleman seemed to have a very singular notion of free-trade. He could conceive, U in a tenfold degree-the difficulty of distinguishing between goods of French manufacture, and goods of English manufacture. Why, even when the silk-trade of this country was in a rude state, for rude it was in 1825, before those rapid advances had been made which had since, so much to the honour of the industry and the intelligence of this country, been effected in this branch of our in that there were very large limits indeed, and that there was a very wide space indeed, between prohibition and, what he should call, free-trade. Certainly anything short of prohibition more stringent in its operation than the existing law, it was difficult to conceive. The hon. Gentleman's notion of free-trade might be correct. He would not stop to discuss the point, because it formed no part of the present question, which simply was,dustry-cases of difficulty continually ocprohibition, or no prohibition. He thought curred? Did not the hon. Gentleman the case had been put most fairly and ably recollect, that parties, relying on their by his right hon. friend, the Secretary at conscientious and firm belief, were preWar; and, certainly, were he disposed to pared to swear that goods which had been concede the principle-were he inclined manufactured at Manchester, or in Spitalto think, that prohibition might be granted fields, were of French production? -had he no regard to the general interests that were the case then, what would be of the country, or its relations with foreign the case now? It would be utterly imStates, which were admitted, and can- possible to put his law effectually into didly admitted, by the hon. member for execution, even by again inflicting all the Worcester, to form one ground of argu- vexation, all the annoyance, and all the ment on this question-if he looked only inquisitorial powers on the country which to the interests of the parties represented attended the general prohibitory system; by the hon. Gentleman, he should say, which, he ventured to say, the people of that they could not possibly have a worse this country would not suffer, if the atservice done them than to grant them the tempt were made. The hon. Gentleman, prohibition they desired. If he dwelt on if his plan were adopted, would fail comthis question, he should only repeat the pletely in the object he had in view, beargument of his right hon. friend, for in cause it would be out of his power to that was the whole question of prohibition distinguish the foreign from the home included. If it were wanted to have pro- manufacture. The hon. Gentleman had, hibiting enactments on the Statute Book, very properly and justly, confined his case he would ask, granting, for a moment, to the manufacture of one article, that of that they were right and good, whether broad ribands; because there was no cause there existed the means of carrying them of complaint in any other branch of the into effect? He said, there did not. What silk manufacture. Nay, he knew that, in was the existing state of the law? The the town which he had the honour to reduty at present was considerably higher present, and which was now become the than the cost of smuggling. Goods were great seat of the silk-trade, there were no therefore smuggled. And what was to pre-well-founded complaints; neither had any vent them being smuggled into this country, complaints reached him from Macclesfield supposing the duty increased or transformed or Congleton, both towns extensively coninto a prohibition? The hon. Gentleman nected with the silk-trade. The profits of said, "I would have all the goods ex- the manufacturers were lower, perhaps, amined; I would find the means of pre-in that than in other branches of trade; venting these smuggled articles from being but, although profits and also wages were sold." He begged to say, that any at-low, there was full employment for the pertempt to effect that was utterly and entirely out of the question. How would the hon. Gentleman effect it? Would he enter a shop and seize any goods exposed for sale, if they were supposed to be smuggled? Would he stop a lady in the street, and take from her a shawl, or a bonnet, or a riband, supposed to be of French manufacture? Then came the difficulty, formerly found to be almost insuperable, but which was now increased sons engaged in that manufacture. There was one point to which he wished especially to call the attention of the House, in consequence of what had fallen from the hon. Baronet, the member for Warwickshire. The case, it should be borne in mind, consisted of two parts, the interests connected with the plain, and the interests connected with the figured article of manufacture. The hon. Member who introduced this Motion represented a city where the latter article was chiefly manufactured, | pected), that branch of industry had been and his Motion had reference chiefly to transferred to other places-Manchester, the flowered and figured fancy ribands; Macclesfield, Congleton, and their rethere was good reason for that, because spective vicinities, had taken possession the only branch of the trade which could of it; and he feared, that it was now too with justice complain of French competi- late for these parties to regain it. He had tion was the figured riband. The hon. the evidence of the parties themselves on Baronet (Sir Eardley Wilmot) certainly this subject. In the declaration made by did present some petitions the other day, the manufacturers at Nuneaton a few setting forth the distressed condition of years ago, the cause of distress at Coventry the parties engaged in the manufacture of and its neighbourhood was plainly inplain ribands; but they had no possible dicated; - It is said (they observed) that, ground of complaint against French com- by our neglect of improvement, our trade petition. If it were necessary to support has passed from us in consequence of this statement by authority, he could quote competition, not from abroad, but at that of a Gentleman largely concerned in 'home; and we have now found out that that branch of the trade, who told him, which is a truth in all commercial matthat the remedy for the distress of that ters-that, once having lost the priority particular class of people, was not a re-in the market of demand and supply, turn to the system of prohibitory duties. "All we ask (he said) is a drawback, or rather bounty, amounting to fifteen or eighteen per cent upon these articles, and then we can export them to France, and compete with the French manufacturers." The riband manufacture had completely changed within a few years. The broad plain ribands which were formerly worn by many classes of society, but more particularly by the less wealthy, were not now in request, scarcely any were to be seen, for the taste and fashion of the public had entirely changed. Let any Gentleman notice the sort of ribands worn by his own female servants; he would find, instead of plain ribands, that figured ribands, in consequence of the improvement of the manufacture, and of that natural feeling which existed from the higher to the lower classes of society with regard to objects of taste, were now almost the only article worn. The manufacture of plain ribands, therefore, had diminished, not by reason of foreign competition, but entirely in consequence of the change of fashion. Unless, then, the hon. Baronet were to bring in a Bill to prevent the fashion from changing, he would not be able to restore to these parties the business which they formerly enjoyed. The reason why the parties who now complained were out of employment was obvious; they would pertinaciously adhere to their old mode of employment, notwithstanding the improvements in machinery and the changes in fashion. They refused to turn their capital and skill into a new channel, and the conse quence had been (as might have been ex it becomes a most difficult, if not an impossible thing for us to regain it. We have been thrown out of the course, backwards, and our places are supplied by others, not by foreign, but by home manufacturers, and we are now suffering from them.' So much for the cause of distress in Coventry of the plain riband weavers, represented by the hon. Gentleman. With regard to the fancy riband manufacturers, it was true, that they had suffered to a certain extent by competition; but he believed, that competition was inevitable, because, whether there had been prohibitory duties or not, it must equally have taken place. But no man, who had watched the state of things in Coventry, could deny, that these parties had also suffered much by their own unwillingness to introduce the improvements in machinery and manufacture which were in the possession of those with whom they had to compete. The hon. Baronet had said, that there was as good machinery, and as much skill, employed there as in other places. There might be, in particular instances, but he was afraid it was by no means a general case; and, even if it were, the improvement had been adopted too late; and they had lost a considerable portion of the trade by the greater improvement, the greater attention, and the greater skill, which had been devoted to it in other parts of England. If hon. Gentlemen would refer to the Returns which had been laid on the Table, they would see, that the importation of this article had not, in any material degree, increased, whilst the consumption of the articles manufactured in this country had increased in a most extraordinary degree. He had the curiosity, this morning, just to look into this simple fact-what proportion the weight of manufactured silk imported into this country from France, bore to the weight of unmanufactured silk brought in here for the purpose of manufacture; and, he found, that the proportion of manufactured to unmanufactured silk, imported in the year 1833, was three per cent upon the whole. At the present time, he believed, it had increased to four or five per cent, in consequence of this being the season when the importations usually took place. To suppose that such a proportion of competition could do any serious injury, was really rating at too low a standard the manufacturing power and industry of this country. However, he wished to confine himself to the question as proposed by the hon. Gentleman; and he put it to the House, would they return, by their vote of that night, to the system of prohibition? Would they acknowledge that principle, or even if they were inclined to do it, could they, in aid of an article of manufacture, when it could be proved, that such a course would only tend to defeat the very object in view. Sir Daniel Sandford said, it was unquestionable, that in many branches of the silk trade, and especially in the manufacture of shawls, very great distress prevailed. In Scotland, he knew that large numbers of workmen were now discharged, with famine staring them in the face. He had been informed, that the amount of orders lately received, was 80 per cent lower than the usual demand at this time of the year. He knew it was impossible to return to a system of general prohibition, but what was necessary to be done had been recognised in a recent speech of the right hon. Gentleman, which had been received by the manufacturers with great pleasure. The right hon. Gentleman had said, that if France did not return the advantages of reciprocity which this country had proffered, he would employ all the means at his command as a Minister of the Crown, to compel her. All he asked was, that the right hon. Gentleman would follow out this principle, which Mr. Huskisson would undoubtedly have done, if he had lived. The first form of the experiment of free trade had failed, and the time was now come when they ought to try whether the other form would be more successful. Mr. Hume said, that the silk trade was peculiarly circumstanced. The fact was, that it stood in its own way, as regarded its power to compete, by having refused to admit the introduction of machinery. If they looked into the evidence given before the Silk Trade Committee, they would find it stated, that in the town of Coventry, when an attempt was made to introduce machinery there, the most decided opposition was exhibited; in fact, the machinery was destroyed. So mistaken and short-sighted had the parties been, that they had formed strong combinations against the introduction of any improvements in the machinery that was used. He deeply regretted, that so many persons should be suffering as was represented; he had no doubt, that their distress was great, and no one could feel more anxious than he was to afford them relief; but though he entertained these sentiments, he must acquit himself of acting improperly, if he did not accede to the Motion before the House. Instead of adopting a course which, in his conscience, he believed would deceive the parties most interested, and in place of proving advantageous to them, would add to their present difficulties, he would candidly state what appeared to him to be the cause of the distress, and what remedy he thought ought to be applied. His hon. friend who had introduced this question, in so doing, had, no doubt, discharged his duty to his constituents; but from the knowledge which his hon. friend possessed of the principles of commerce, he thought his hon. friend must feel the impossibility of the desired relief being obtained from such a source as prohibition. He referred the distress, in a great measure, to that most mischievous of all monopolies—the monopoly of food. He must also assert, that for a portion of their distress, he thought the people of Coventry had themselves to blame, in having refused to admit the silk necessary to their manufacture free of duty. In no portion of the kingdom was the admission of thrown-silk duty free more strenuously opposed than in Coventry. The amount of the duty was 3s. 6d. per lb. To show what had been the advantages of a relaxed system, it might be stated, that ever since the period when the Committee sat for fifty-five days, the silk manufactures had been gradually increasing. By the existing system, the English manufacturer who had to work against the French, was placed in a worse a celebrated merchant, whom they exsituation to the amount of from 12 to 15amined, with the view of getting from per cent; yet, when it was proposed to take him a counter statement. This gentleoff the duty, the proposition was met by a man quoted twenty or thirty articles which positive refusal to consent to such an al-had fallen in price; but he alleged twenty teration. He trusted, that nothing that or thirty different causes for that effect. Of could be urged would induce a return to course he was out-argued then, as he did any system of prohibition. Looking at not doubt he should be on the present octhe facilities for commerce which this casion. He regretted, that particular intercountry possessed-at its numerous po-ests came forward claiming particular repulation, ingenious and enterprising-lief. The distress was general; let all taking also into consideration its machinery and its large capital-the removal of restrictions could not be otherwise than beneficial. Instead, then, of deluding the people by favouring their false views, he thought it incumbent on that House to make them acquainted with their real position. This once understood, they would see that prohibitory duties would but augment their distress; and that, on the other hand, the removal of restrictions and the reduction of the existing monopoly in the article of food, would tend more than anything else to its relief. In conclusion, he must express a hope, that his hon. friend would not press his Mo-those who had funded property-all place tion. unite, and they must succeed in obtaining a measure of general relief. One cause existed of the distress--it was a general cause-it was not the want of onepound notes, but it was the pressure of the metallic standard of value. This it was which would ultimately involve the noble Lord opposite, and the House, in one common ruin, within a period of ten years. He would return to a general system of prohibition. Under the pretence of doing good to the nation, Gentlemen had advocated a free trade. Free trade! He would call it free plunder. It had increased the taxes-it had aggrandized all men, pensioners, and sinecurists-all who Mr. Thomas Attwood would trouble lived on the fruits of the labour and inthe House with a few words in favour dustry of the people. Free trade, free of the Motion. The distress of the par- taxes, and free rents, had completed a ties now appealing to the House had most enormous and disgraceful robbery of been attributed in part to a change of the country. The plunderer had been refashion. Was it change of fashion that acted on by the plundered. The landoccasioned the distress of the ship-own- owners were suffering as much as any ers? Was it change of fashion that oc- class of the community; and from this casioned the distress of the land-owners? he derived some consolation. During the Was it change of fashion that occasioned war, they exhibited a grasping and selfish the distress of the farmers? In one word, policy. They were profiting by it, and was it change of fashion that had plunged they were indifferent as to how long it into distress all the great interests of the continued. They said to themselves, country? He would answer, No. Ge-"We are now in all our glory and prosneral distress must have a general cause. The report of the Agricultural Committee which sat in 1821, established the fact of the existence of general distress. He was examined on that occasion, but the Committee thought fit to reject his clear and unanswerable exposé. Hon. Gentlemen smiled; but he would repeat his assertion -his reasoning was unanswered and un-can't do any thing for you." To all who answerable-it was not answered at the time, nor had any human being attempted to answer it since. He had been told, by men of all parties-by Whigs, Tories, and Radicals, that it could not be answered. That reasoning of his was, notwithstanding, kept out of the agricultural report. The Committee brought forward perity;" and, speaking in the language of Holy Writ, they declared the evils to be nothing, "so long as Mordecai the Jew was sitting at the king's gate." It would be impossible much longer to govern England in this way; subjects of great moment were pressing on the country. The House told the people, "We complained of distress, they cried out, in the cuckoo note of the ancient oligarch House, " We can't do any thing for you.' Was this the fact? If it was, why did not the members of his Majesty's Government, who thus admitted their inability, make way for better men? Let them retire; and he would answer for it that he would find, |