875 Post-Office. {COMMONS} to Post-Office. Still he would not 876 newspapers had originated with France. Committee in the next Session on this Surely this was a paltry object of conten-question, he would advise his hon. friend tion; but if it were to be considered a who had brought forward the Motion not it; but otherwise he would advise pre- press matter of importance, he was pared to show, that it originated with him to proceed with it. Much stress had the Duke of Richmond, or at least been laid on the reciprocal exchange of that it was he who brought the plan newspapers, and it was argued as a great into execution. They were now about boon; but looking at it as pound, shilling, to enter into such reciprocity with and pence matter, it was not of such very France, and it was to be hoped that two great importance. great countries, separated only by a narrow deny the very considerable advantages channel, and which had hitherto been look-which, in another point of view, were ed upon as natural enemies, would hence-likely to accrue from it; and he must adforward have no rivalry injurious to either, mit, that it was a measure calcul ated to put but rather enter into an emulation benefi- an end to the hostile feelings which had so and France. But he would show, from the cial to both, tending to develope their frequently existed between this country resources, and enable them freely, and hand-writing of the noble Duke to whom with equal advantage, to interchange this measure had been attributed, that he the surplus productions of their labour. himself did not set a higher value on it as Nor was it only with France that inter-regarded revenue than 3,500l., and that so change was to take place. It should also extend to our colonial territories, for it would be hard to grant to France that which we denied to our own colonies. The duties would be taken off from all newspapers passing to or from the colonies and the mother-country. The advantages arising from this arrangement would be of great benefit to the former, as, instead of their own narrow journals, whose matter was in a great degree restricted to local scandal, they would have the advantage of more enlarged and able prints. He hoped the House would agree with him in the view he had taken, and negative the hon. Member's Motion. He would move that they should go into a Committee on the Postage Acts; but he found, that such an Amendment was contrary to the orders of the House. 66 for med the It stated the amount far from viewing it as an object of public advantage, he considered it as of little import. Here the hon. Member read a Richmond," written to the letter signed, Chancellor of the Exchequer, and dated July 16, 1833, stating that the free transmission of English newspapers, and the circulation here of foreign ones, only emoluments of the officers of the Foreign Post-office. to be about 3,500l., and added that if those emoluments were done away, and the salaries charged upon the revenue, it would be merely to accommodate a few foreigners here, and some English abroad, with articles of luxury. Surely, continued the hon. Member, after expressing such opinions as these no credit on this head could be claimed for a nobleman who only acquiesced in a measure when he could no longer resist it. Mr. Hume supported the Motion, and These boasted improvements were put forwas of opinion that a Commission of In- ward to blind the House to the real state quiry would be of great service. In the of the question-that they might ask, “Will days in which the former Commission was you meddle with such a system so complete, granted, it certainly was difficult enough to or in such a state of being completed?" Our system procure inquiry, and yet, notwithstanding There was not, he contended, in Europe, a the difficulty and the delay with which system so defective as ours. in those days such inquiries were burthen- was confused through excess of legislaed, the Committee then appointed pro- tion. There were no less than 107 Acts of duced evidence enough to show, that the Parliament applying to the subject: and if department which they were appointed to they intended to effect any good purpose, investigate was in a most miserable con- and do away with the confusion which at dition. Were the few improvements which present existed, they should consolidate the had been so ostentatiously pointed out suf-laws upon this subject. The whole quesficient to satisfy the House? The hon. Gentleman had sneered at Commissions. Was not this rather odd in a Member of a Government which abounded in Commissions? If the Ministry would grant a tion might be comprised within the single and simple point,-was the present Postoffice system calculated to work the greatest good at the smallest expense? No one could say, that it was; the present system roads were taken into account, that objection would vanish. The fact was, they should take the whole charge of the roads of the country, and introduce a scale of payment on the roads. There should be three posts leaving London on every day, and, at twelve o'clock on Sunday, there should be a post leaving town, as there was every other day. The foreign conveyance to America and the Indies was left perfectly free on Sunday as on every other day. Why, then, should the transmission of letters from London to various parts of England be suspended on that day? The Clyde steam-boats offered to carry letters whenever they sailed, and they were not allowed by the Post-office; that was a gross and wanton act of infringement on the public interest. He would contrast the conduct of the French and the English Government, and by the contrast show how illiberal and unwise was the British Government. In France, they paid according to the distance; not so here. France, one should not pay the postage of seventy miles, though the letter travelled only forty-seven miles. What he mainly contended for was, that there should be allowed a free transmission of letters and papers on both sides. In was conducted at a loss of 70,000l. a-year | pense; but when the great facilities of to the country. Another point he would conveyance and the improved state of the state was and he would put it interrogatively-did the Post-office afford the greatest facilities of communication? Was the system of transmission of letters and papers the safest, the most expeditious, and the best? He would say, no; and the country would respond to him. It was a grievous delusion to fancy, that because a particular and isolated portion of the system could be defended, the whole of the Post-office arrangements were, therefore, unassailable. It was like the ostrich, that while it thrust its head into a hole in the sands, foolishly fancied its body was secure. So, because a particular department of the Post-office was not obnoxious to attack, the entire system was on that account to be held exempt from reprehension. No doubt, well-meaning individuals maintained that, forsooth, because the Mail did not leave London on Sunday, no irregularities were committed. But those " good easy men" must have thought that all the Mails in the country ceased travelling on Sunday. The people of Barnet, however, might receive and send off their letters on Sunday, a privilege the people of London could not enjoy. Was that right? The people of London surely were entitled to the same privileges as the people of Barnet, or of any other place. The inequalities between Lord Althorp said, if a choice were to be the condition of the people of London and made, he would prefer the appointment of those of almost any other place, would a Commission to a Committee, because he alone deserve the serious interposition of thought it would be more likely to succeed; Parliament. Why should not the people but the question was whether, under existof London be allowed to send out and re- ing circumstances, it would be desirous to ceive their letters two or three times on a address his Majesty to appoint such a ComSunday. In the present advanced state of mission? Before, however, he addressed society there should be no difference be- the House on that point, he would advert tween the rate of postage here, and on the to some of the observations of the hon. continent; or here between one place and Member who had brought forward the another. He (Mr. Hume) would advance Motion, and also those of the hon. member another suggestion, that the 2,000,000l. for Middlesex; and he must say, either now received by the Post-office should be that he had misunderstood them, or they paid into the Exchequer, for in that case had not a clear and distinct view of the rethe people would have a more direct con- gulations under which the Post-office ought trol over the fund, and that the payments to be placed. At one time they considered necessary to be made should come from that it simply as a source of revenue, and comquarter. It would be much better that plained that the revenue had not increased. there should be appointed officers by the At another, they regarded the revenue as a Treasury to make payments to the Post-matter of trifling consideration, and thought office functionaries, than that the present that should be disregarded when it in any plan should be continued. It was main-way interfered with the convenience of the tained, in opposition to the proposition of public. Now, he had no hesitation in saythose who would remove the existing ing that the public convenience ought to abuses of the Post-office, that the pro- be considered, and that, at the same time, pounded system of amelioration would be the revenue ought not to be thrown overattended with 200,000l. additional ex-board. On this mixed principle, it was an abstract proposition; but if the country kept up an expensive establishment for the transmission of letters, it was necessary that it should possess the monopoly of transmission. He considered the Post-office as a revenue department; but he thought that, keeping that circumstance in view, every thing possible should be done for the convenience of the public. It was said, that Mail-coaches were less convenient for travellers than other coaches; but he doubted the statement, because it was the interest of the contractors to obtain as many passengers as pos he thought that unless a case of necessity were established, it would be unwise to appoint a Commission. The House ought not to agree to the Motion unless they were of opinion, that the Government was using no endeavours to introduce improvements into the department of the Post-office. Commissions ought not to be issued except in cases in which the Government had not the powers of prosecuting inquiries. This was the case with respect to the Excise department, and there a Commission issued. There was no circumstance connected with the Post-office into which the Government was not as competent to inquire as a Commission would be. If, however, it should appear that Government could not prosecute the inquiry efficiently, he hoped that he should not be accused of inconsistency should he hereafter call upon the House to sanction the appointment of a Commission. that the department was wont to proceed, so that when a public application was made for a new line of conveyance for the Mail and so forth, the Post-office considered not alone what would be the degree of convenience to the public, or how the revenue would be effected, but it regarded both conjointly. With respect to the transmission of newspapers, it was the intention of the law, that the stamp should be used only once, and therefore his noble friend objected to the indiscriminate transmission of newspapers after date. The hon. member for Greenock complained of the number of Acts of Parlia-sible. As to the Motion before the House, ment relating to the Post-office, and wanted a bill of consolidation. Such a Bill was prepared, as well as one for consolidating the law relating to stamps; and nothing but the want of time for passing them through Parliament, prevented him from bringing them forward. With respect to the delivery of letters in the metropolis on Sunday, he had no great objection to it; but considering the feeling which prevailed generally in the country, he did not think that it would be prudent to make the alteration. It was true, that letters were delivered on Sundays in all other parts of the empire except London; and that the extension of the practice to London would put into employment only some additional letter-sorters and deliverers; but still for the reason he had mentioned, he was not disposed to try the experiment at present. The hon. member for Middlesex had suggested, that all the revenue of the Post-office should be paid into the Treasury, and all the disburse-old Post-office packets had been superMr. Buckingham complained, that the ments for the office paid out of the same seded by gun-brigs. The former were department. That might be a good plan excellent vessels, whilst the latter were but it was followed neither in the Customs, insecure and unfit for the service. A nor in the Excise, and the hon. Member should extend his principle to them as well person resident at Falmouth had informed as to the Post-office. He, however, had him, that from 1793 there was not a single not yet heard any person propose that. instance of a Post-office packet having been The hon. member for Middlesex said, that lost, whilst in six years no fewer than the revenue of the Post-office had not in- seven gun-brigs had foundered at sea. creased, although internal communication From their construction the latter vessels was much more extensive than formerly. were very liable to be taken a-back. He That was partly owing, no doubt, to the would undertake to prove, that there was Post-office having given the public much specie enough lost in one of the gun-brigs increased accommodation. It was also to defray the expense of a new set of owing in part to letters being transmitted packets. The hon. Member also comthrough private hands, and he believed plained that newspapers published in our that this breach of the law was carried own colonies were subject to a duty on to a great extent. The hon. Member being brought into England. When he said, that all persons should be allowed was sent from India, he brought some to send their letters in the way they newspapers with him, for which he was liked best. That sounded very well as compelled to pay 301. He memorialized 881 Assessed Taxes. {JUNE 26} Mr. Labouchere said, that it was the intention of the Government to employ as packets vessels built upon a new principle. per the Treasury on the subject, and stated | sixty-four, about 6s. 2d. per window; Mr. Thicknesse 66 windows was 13. 12s., which was equal ASSESSED TAXES.] That, rose, pursuant to notice, to move after the end of the present financial halfyear, the duty on each window above the number of thirty-nine, in any dwellinghouse in Great-Britain, shall be the same as is now chargeable on each window, above the number of eleven and below the number of forty." After complaining of the unequal operation of the Window-tax, of its undue pressure on the middle classes, and the high degree in which it was favourable to the Aristocracy, he proceeded to say, that up to thirty-nine windows inclusive, there was an additional duty of 8s. 6d., or in some instances, for which there appeared to be no reason, of 8s. 3d. From thirty-nine windows per window. upwards, the rate of additional duty decreased, and was not imposed, as in the lower numbers, on each window, on every four windows up to 100, and on every ten windows, from 100 to 180, an alteration in the scale made perhaps to Lord Althorp contended, that the presrender less manifest the unfairness and partiality with which the tax was imposed. sure of those taxes had been much The average additional duty on windows, exaggerated, and it was scarcely worth from thirty-nine to forty-four, instead of while at that period of the Session, to 8s. 6d. or 8s. 3d., as for the lower number, disturb the financial arrangements of the was only 4s. 2d.; from forty-five to fifty-year for so small an object. He further niue, about 7s. per window; from sixty to thought, that in any arrangement which but The Speaker suggested, that a Motion such as the hon. Member had made, ought to be submitted to a Committee of the whole House. Mr. Thicknesse would therefore move "that the House do then resolve itself into a Committee, to consider the WindowTax." on the subject a searching and impartial inquiry. Before he proceeded further, he could not help calling the attention of the House to a few facts which came within his own observation during a recent tour on the continent-facts which demonstrated the inefficiency of those officers even when placed the nearest to our own shores; the inference from which was might be made, it would be desirable to operate upon both ends of the scale-to diminish the lower, as well as to increase the higher rates of payment. He did not think, however, that it would be expedient for the House to entertain the question at that period of the Session, although it was one which before the ensuing meeting of Parliament, might well become a matter of consideration with his Majesty's Go-obvious, that at a greater distance they vernment. · Motion withdrawn. now 32 francs; and the ten per cent duty or duties make 384. Swedish iron is admitted into France upon much more advantageous terms. Let it be observed that, in all commercial intercourse with France, every duty has ten per cent added. During the Polignac administration goods from British India were prohibited in Calais, and, I understand, in every French port; certainly so, if they came in British vessels. At present they are, I am informed, to a great extent smuggled through Ostend, particularly tea. must be still less serviceable. He held it to be indisputable, that if there was one duty more than another, which consuls BRITISH CONSULS IN FOREIGN were called upon to discharge, it was that STATES.] Mr. Hesketh Fleetwood rose to of watching the commercial treaties of all submit to the House a Motion, of which countries, and making their provisions he had a considerable time ago given and operations known to their own Gonotice, the object of which was, the ap-vernment. The few notes which he made pointment of a Select Committee to inquire illustrative of that part of the subject, he into the duties, modes of appointment, should read to the House, and ask hon. amount of remuneration, and all other Members what they thought of a departmatters relating to British consuls resident ment which permitted matters of so much in foreign states, with a view to rendering importance to be thus neglected :-"The their services more conducive to the inter-duty on English iron has been doubled ests of commerce. He had reason to about 1827 in the French ports. It was believe that the appointment of the Com-sixteen francs on the 224lb. English, it is mittee for which he intended to move, would not be opposed by the noble Lord opposite (the Secretary for Foreign Affairs) except with reference to time, and on that point he imagined there would be between them but little difference of opinion, for he should not stickle for a few months more or less. If he should succeed in inducing his Majesty's Government really and sincerely to take the matter up, the object he had in view would be to a great extent accomplished; it was material, however, that hon. Members should, in the meanwhile, turn their attention to the sub-known fact that tea and India handkerchiefs are both to be had good at Dover. landed at Calais for the express purpose of I believe the fact to be, that much tea is being smuggled into England. Nothing can be more evident than that an improved system as to consular management would put these matters upon a better footing. In the article of coal, the duty is sixteen sous per 100 kilogrammes, or 224 lbs. English, more than is paid by the Belgians, and slate is in a similar situation. The duty on English slate is treble that on Belgian." He regretted to state, that the truly and strictly commercial character of a consul was wholly left out of view; it seemed to be regarded altogether as an office for which any person was competent-no matter what might be his education, no matter what his previous pursuits. Were it not invidious, he might mention the names of ject, for it was one of great commercial importance. He had at the present moment in his possession, various letters and communications from commercial men, complaining of the inefficiency of our consular system, and in his opinion that inefficiency was so clearly made out, that it would be wasting the time of the House were he to urge it upon the attention of hon. Members by means of any observations of his own-his wish would rather be, to refer them to the documents then in his hand, to some of which he should call their attention before he sat down. The inefficiency, or at least a persuasion of the inefficiency of our consular system, prevailed almost universally, and whether that opinion was well or ill founded, it became the duty of Parliament to institute It is a well |