"That he employed Jacob Trumpbour, one of the most experienced surveyors in the State, to make the surveys necessary to a compliance with the directions of the Legislature, &c." (Senate Journal of 1829, page 37 and 38.)

AUGUSTUS TREMAIN, Sworn on the part of Jacob Trumpbour (deposition No. 26,) among other things stated the following:

1 Q. Are you a professional and practical surveyor, and how long have you been so?

A. I am, and have been so rising of thirty years.

2 Q. Have you examined the respective plans of survey adopted by Jacob Trumptour and Holmes Hutchinson, in surveying the canals of the State, the map and field book on the Champlain canal, presented by Holmes Hutchinson; the specimen of field book, field notes and rough maps presented by Jacob Trumpbour to the committee, so as to understand their different plans of survey?

A. I have examined, and think I understand their different plans.

3 Q. Will you look at part first, chapter ninth, title ninth, section fourth of the Revised Statutes, page 218, and state to the committee which of the said plans of surveying you, as a surveyor, consider most conformable to the requirements of that section, and the reasons upon which your opinion is founded?

A. I have examined that section of the act, and am of the opinion that it requires an actual survey by courses and distances of the exterior boundaries, of all the lands belonging to the State, adjacent to the canal or connected therewith; and such a written description by metes and bounds as will enable both the agents of the public and the owners of private property adjoining, to determine the boundary line between them, so long as the bounds erected by the surveyor shall remain; and in case any of the bounds or visible objects become obliterated, or removed, that such might be renewed by a re-survey, according to the field notes or record.

If I understand Mr. Hutchinson's plan of surveying, it is this: he commenced by running a line with courses and distances, which he denominates a base line, along the inner edge of the towing path. At cach station of the alignment he bisects the angle with a line which he has measured each way to the exterior limits of the State

property. At intermediate points, where a variation in the width of the State property rendered it necessary, he has taken offsetts, at right angles with his base line, and measured them in the same manner as he did his bisecting lines. In his passage he has noted the distance on his base line, from his last station to where he passed locks, bridges, culverts, aqueducts, waste-weirs; and in like manner noted the distance at which he intersected division lines of farms, and crossed streams of water. Ponds, basins, and such parts of the canal as are much broader than its general width, he has surveyed in the usual way by courses and distances. In no other instance has he given courses, distance or description of bounds of the exterior lines of the State property, but has furnished sufficient data by which those courses and distances can be ascertained by mathematical calculation.

It appears from the map and field book of Mr. Trumpbour, that he has surveyed on both sides of the canal the exterior lines of the State property, in the usual way, by courses and distances; and that he has taken the bearing and distance from definite points in his line, to locks, bridges, culverts, aqueducts and waste-weirs; and also to such other permanent objects, as were found adjacent to his line, such as dwelling-houses, stores, factories, meeting-houses, &c. And that he noted buildings standing upon his line, with the number of feet and inches which each encroached upon the State property. That he noted monuments at different stations. That, in making his survey, he has frequently taken check lines across the canal by course and distance, distinguishing the stations to and from which they were taken. He has noted the distance on his line at which he intersected division lines of farms, and crossed streams of water.

In accordance with what I have before stated, I should say the plan of survey adopted by Mr. Trumpbour is most conformable to the requirements of the fourth section, referred to in the question; because it points out on the ground, by courses and distances, the exterior boundaries of the State property; and his field book, as far as I have examined it, appears to contain a full description of the survey, as taken on the ground.

I would give his plan the preference for another reason; check lines across the canal, at reasonable distances from each other, furnish data by which to determine, with a great degree of accuracy, whether the survey has been correctly made. This plan of survey

furnishes another check upon the work. Two surveyors, one on each side of the canal, moving at an equal pace, can conveniently inquire of each other their course and distance from the last station; and if the course across the canal at that station had been correctly taken, and their courses parallel, this would be a perfect check on the measurement, unless each party made the same mistake. The many references which Mr. Trumpbour has made to permanent objects, by taking their bearing and distance, would very much facilitate the renewal of lost boundaries.

Whereas, by Mr. Hutchinson's plan of surveying, no means exist of detecting errors in the work, either in course or distance, should any have been committed. I do not discover, either upon his fieldbook or map, as far as I have examined them, any reference by course and distance to any permanent objects, unless quoin posts of the locks can be considered as such reference. His field-notes are concise, and his key or explanatory notes to the field-book and map, I think rather ambiguous; but if I do understand them, his base line at the locks can be correctly ascertained,

In order to ascertain the exterior lines of the State property by his map and field-book, it would be necessary first to ascertain his base line and its angular points, measure the length of the bisecting offsets, and lines connecting their extremities would be the exterior lines of the State property. The courses and distances of these exterior or connecting lines, can be determined on the ground by the compass and chain, if there is nothing to obstruct the view; but if so, the course must be calculated, and then run.

4 Q. What, in your opinion, is the comparative expense and labor of making and completing the survey, upon the different plans pur-. sued by Jacob Trumpbour and Holmes Hutchinson, including the returns, field-book and map?

A. Without going into a particular calculation, I should say Mr. Hutchinson's expense and labor would be about one-third of that of Mr. Trumpbour's.

18 Q. In stating, as you have done, that you do not discover, in Mr. Hutchinson's field-book or maps, any reference to permanent objects by courses and distances, except to the quoin posts of locks, are the committee to understand that there are no references to other permanent objects? And further, does not the base line of Mr. Hutchinson's survey pass directly across the waste-weirs, aqueducts,

and bridges, in such a manner as to ender a reference to them by courses and distances unnecessary?

A. To the first part of this interrogatory, the witness says, so far as I understand his field-book, I have not discovered any others. And to the residue, he says, I cannot say whether the base line passes over those objects or not, unless we are to understand that a line running along the inner edge of the tow-path, would, as a matter of course, pass over them.

19 Q. Will you look at Mr. Hutchinson's map, and say whether the base line does or does not intersect the line of each bridge, and is not the distance noted?

A. On the map, it appears that the base line does cross the bridges, but what part of the bridge, does not appear. The distance on the base line to the bridge, is stated or given from the last station.

34 Q. You say there is no check in the plan of survey adopted by Mr. Hutchinson; do you intend to say that the inner edge of the tow-path may not be used to correct the errors of the magnetic needle?

A. If the inner edge of the towing path were permanent, it would control courses and distances both, as they must always yield to permanent objects; but in running one line, if any errors are committed, I know of no means of correcting it but by a survey. This is what I mean in my direct examination.

35 Q. Can or can not the distance upon the base line along the inner edge of the towing path, be measured with more precision, and the location of that line be fixed with greater facility and exactness, by reference to permanent objects, than either of the exterior lines of the State property?

A. With respect to the first branch of the inquiry, it would depend upon the care and labor bestowed in running the lines. The low cation of the base line can be found with greater facility than either of the exterior lines, if there are an equal number of near and convenient permanent objects. But as to the exactness with which the work may be executed, I do not think there is any difference.

39 Q. Which of the two plans of survey, that of Trumpbour or Hutchinson, furnishes the best means of correcting the variation of

the magnetic needle, when the permanent objects noted by each are taken into consideration?

40 Q. By Mr. Hutchinson's mode of survey, as it appears from his map and field book, what permanent objects would there be to regulate his survey upon that part of the Erie canal where there are no locks, as between Canistota and the first lock east of Utica, there being no locks for the distance of about forty miles?

A. Upon his plan, as he performed it upon the Champlain canal, I see no reference to permanent objects by which his line could be definitely determined or ascertained but at the locks.

41 Q. What objects are referred to in Mr. Trumpbour's survey, by which the variations of the magnetic needle may be more accurately determined than in Mr. Hutchinson's?

A. Dwelling houses, meeting houses, sawmills, carding, machines, stores, bridges, culverts, aqueducts. Mr. Hutchinson not having noted those objects that I recollect, at the point of his line, so as to be able to locate the place definitively where his line pass

ed them.

On the other hand, Mr. Hutchinson called several witnesses to sustain his plan of survey, to which end EPHRAIM BEACH was sworn testified as follows, that is to say,

1 Q. What is your profession? (See deposition No. 16.)

A. Surveyor and civil engineer.

2 Q. How long have you followed that profession?

A. About seventeen years since I first commenced the practice of surveying as a business or profession; for the last twelve years, or about that time, I have been employed as an engineer upon public works. During that time I have been employed upon the Erie canal in this State; upon the Schuylkill and Canestoga navigations in Pennsylvania, and upon the Morris canal in New-Jersey. I have also been employed as engineer in the survey of several rail-roads.

3 Q. Have you examined the map and field book of the survey of the Champlain canal, made under the direction of Mr. Hutchinson, and now exhibited to the committee?