Cross-examination on the part of Mr. Hutchinson. 26 Q. Does Mr. Trumpbour's sample of field book, so far as it is made up, give the courses and distances of the outlines of each piece of land taken from individuals for the use of the canal? A. As far as I have read, it does. 27 Q. How many owners are named on that sample, and what are their names? A. Prime, Ward & Sands, Elisas Hubbard, Ebenezer Johnson and Samuel Wilkeson, and the Holland Land Company. 28 Q. Will you give me the courses and distances around the land taken from Prime, Ward & Sands. A. Beginning on the northerly side of the Buffalo creek, bearing S. 32° 30', E. 1c. 491. from station 1, place of beginning on the northerly side of the canal or basin; and also bearing S. 53° W. 611. from the S. W. corner of George B. Webster's store, and runs thence N. 61° E. 1c. 811., distant 12 feet from canal or basin; thence N. 43° 30' E. 7c. 471.; thence N. 82° E. 221.; thence S. 50° E. 4c. 371. to Main-street, the easterly bounds of Prime, Ward & Sands; thence N. 15° E. 12 feet, to the canal or basin on Little Buffalo creek; thence along Little and Big Buffalo creek, as they wind and turn, to the place of beginning. JNO. KIERSTED. (No. 23.) IN COMMITTEE-Present, as before. James Cockburn's Deposition. James Cockburn, a witness produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows: 1 Q. Are you a professional and practical surveyor; and if so, how long? A. I am, and have been thirty-five years. 2 Q. Were you with Jacob Trumpbour when he was making his survey of the Erie canal? If so, when and where, and did you observe his plan of survey? A. I was with him on the section of the canal at Port Byron, I believe in June 1829, and did observe his plan of survey. 3 Q. Have you examined the respective plans adopted by Jacob Trumpbour and Holmes Hutchinson, in surveying the canals of this State, together with their maps, field notes and field books, so as to understand the different plans? A. I have, and believe I understand them. 4 Q. Which of those two plans of survey, do you, as a surveyor, consider most conformable to the requirements of the 4th section of part 1st, title 9, chapter 9, of the Revised Statutes, and state the reasons of your opinion fully and particularly? A. I have examined that part of the act, and in my opinion it requires an actual location of the State property along the line of the canal, on the ground run and marked out, accompanying with the map and field hook a particular description, with the boundaries of each man's lot by course and distance, in order to enable the State and the adjoining owners to know where their bounds are. The survey of Mr. Hutchinson seems to me to be wanting in many places, according to my views on that subject. In the first place, the outer boundary lines of the State property necessary for the canal, have not been run on the ground, which would also enable him to determine the interference with buildings, &c. The courses and distances of those lines are not given on his map nor field book. The objects he has noted in his field book, along the base line, afford no means to ascertain how far off the objects are to the right or left, excepting the quoin posts of the locks; also erecting monuments at every exterior end of his offsets, for the State property, are necessary requirements, in order to complete the survey. Whereas the survey of Mr. Trumpbour presents to me, to have avoided all those objections, where the survey of Mr. Hutchinson is wanting, as above stated. If he has, as appears from his survey he has, run and marked out on the ground the outer boundary lines of the State property, for the use of the canal, accompanying with the map and field book, giving a particular description of the State property, by courses and distances, with monuments erected on the outer boundaries of the State property, their bearings to permanent objects, with courses and distances, their interferences with individuals' property on the outer boundary lines, such as buildings, &c. and he has also designated each parcel of land so taken for the use of the canal, from individuals, and noted all permanent objects along the canal, such as locks, aqueducts, culverts, waste-wiers, bridges and buildings, and wherever the accuracy of the survey required it, he has run check lines across the canal from one line to the other. And were I to have performed this survey, I should, in conscience, consider myself bound, in order to do justice to the people of the State of New-York, to have pursued the same plan of survey as now presented by Mr. Trumpbour. Cross-examined on the part of Mr. Hutchinson. 5 Q. Have you, as a surveyor, had any experience in surveying canals, or lands adjoining canals? A. I do not now recollect of any. 6 Q. What was the design of the Legislature in passing the act of 1827, for surveying the canals, to which you have alluded? A. I do not know that I can give any other answer, than such as is contained in my last answer in the direct examination. 7 Q. In determining hereafter the location of the outlines of the State property, upon which would you place a principal reliance, the courses of the lines as obtained by the compass, or upon offsets to the canal? A. I should rely more upon the compass undoubtedly; the offsets would assist, if correctly taken. 8 Q. How would you restore Mr. Trumpbour's small stakes, placed by him at every station, and described by you as monu ments? A. I would restore them by the means furnished by his survey. 9 Q. What are those means, and what instruments would you use? A. I would be governed by his courses and distances, taken by the compass, and by references to permanent objects, which I would use to prove the correetness of the stations where stakes formerly stood. The usual instruments used in surveying, are compass and chain. 10 Q. What permanent monuments do you think it necessary to set at the angle of the exterior lines of the State property to conform to the requirements of the statute? A. In surveys made of the State property, they have generally adopted stakes or trees; and I should suppose that in this survey, stakes at least, ought to have been set, where ne permanent object was found. 11 Q. To insure accuracy in Mr. Trumpbour's survey, how often are check lines required? A. Much would depend upon the distances of the different angles. If the distances were short, perhaps it would require the check lincs to be run oftener, as once in five miles, or once in ten miles, if long. 12 Q. How would you, on Judge Trumpbour's plan of survey, give the courses and distances of the land taken from any individual for the uses of the canal, where no check line had been taken within the lines of his farm? A. If the distance is not put down on the line, I should proceed to ascertain it by calculation; this might be done though the check line were a mile off. 13 Q. Could it be so done with accuraey, if the check line were five miles off? A. I think it can. 14 Q. Would such caleulation insure as much accuracy as if several transverse lines were measured and laid down on the farm? A. I think it would. 15 Q. Could you, from Judge Trumpbour's map and field notes, give the courses and distances of any such piece of land where no such check line is given, without going beyond the limits of the farm for data ? A. I dont know that I can, but the field notes and map afford abundant means to ascertain the course and distances, though some of the data may be beyond the farm. 16 Q. What is the present variation of the magnetic needle, from the true or astronomical meridian, and is that variation east or west? A. The last observation I made, it was five degrees and a quarter; I think the variation was west. 17 Q. Does it continue uniformly the same in the same place? A. It continues varying; there is a yearly and daily variation. 18 Q. Can you, from the map and field book of Mr. Hutchinson, give the courses and distances of the land taken from the farm of any individual, for the uses of the canal, where he gives the courses of the lines of the farm across his base line, the courses and distances of the base line, and the length and angles of his offsets? A. If you will shew me a case in Mr. Hutchinson's map, where the courses and distances are given in the case required to be answered, I will tell you whether it can be done or not. On inspecting the map, the witness says it can be done by metrical calculations I think, with great care and caution. I would as soon run the lines on the ground as make the calculations. 19 Q. Will Will you look at Judge Trumpbour's field notes, and tell the committee how many check lines are there noted in his survey, between the tow-path bridge at Pendleton, and the village of Lockport? A. I am not exactly able to determine these points, and cannot say whether there are three or four. 20 Q. Point out in the field notes, each of those cases, and the words and figures by which they are noted? A. The first is N. 451 E. 151 feet to Beg. St. 2. The next is S. 691 E. to Beg. St. 30, 56 The next is N. 26 E. 184 29 feet. 39 feet across. 21 Q. From station thirty, east of Pendleton, in Trumpbour's field-notes, how far is it going easterly to the next check line, and how many stations intervene? A. Nine stations and three hundred thirty-four chains, so far as I have discovered. 22 Q. From station number thirty, going westerly, how many stations to the next check line? A. I do not know; I have not discovered any until station two, but there are many offsets, and division lines of farms noted. 23 Q. Does not the base line of Mr. Hutchinson's survey pass directly across waste-wiers, aqueducts, bridges and culverts in such a manner as to make a reference to them by courses and distances unnecessary, and are not their intersection noted on the base line? A. I should say, that the courses and distances are necessary to be noted, in order to determine the angles, especially if dependance is to be placed on the base line for any purpose, as it is. I cannot determine the location of the base line, whether it is justly on the edge or not; the line may not cut the edge of the waste-wier, especially if there is a curve in the canal; it is the same in respect to aqueducts and bridges. The distance to waste-wiers, aqueducts and bridges, are noted by Mr. Hutchinson on his base line when he passes them, but no distances are noted how far to the right or left of the line those objects lie or extend. 24 Q. (On the part of Jacob Trumpbour.) Is there any reference in Mr. Hutchinson's map or field-book to bridges, waste-wiers, aque ducts or culverts, that can aid any future surveyor in determining the course or location of the base line in relation to those objects? A. There is not so far as I have been able to discover. Further examined on the part of Mr. Hutchinson. 25 Q. How near to the parts of a degree are you in the habit of taking courses in your survey? A. Where we are not bound by any particular course, we do not take the parts less than a quarter of a degree. But if there is a particular course, we run by degrees and minutes, and note it exactly. JAMES COCKBURN. Taken and sworn in} the committee. J. HAMMOND, Chairman. (No. 24.) John T. Vernor's Deposition. IN COMMITTEE-May 17, 1832. Mr. HAMMOND. The memorialists and their counsel. John T. Vernor, a witness produced, sworn and examined on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, deposes as follows: 1 Q. Are you a clerk in the Comptroller's office of this State, and have you charge of the Canal Room? A. I am, and have such charge. 2 Q. Are there in that office any books or documents containing an apt or other description of the lands taken from individuals for the use of the canals, or any books furnished by the Canal Commissioners or Canal Appraisers, containing such descriptions, or relating to the appraisal of damages, except those now before the committee? A. I do not know of any other book or documents of the kind referred to. JNO. T. VERNOR. Taken and sworn in Committee. J. HAMMOND, Chairman. |