Q. Does it appear from Judge Trumpbour's notes of survey that he took the latitude and departure from tables as he progressed, to test the accuracy of his work? A. I have seen nothing of that in Judge Trumpbour's field notes or maps. 10 Q. State how often, according to your inspection of Judge Trumpbour's maps and field notes, he measured check lines across the canal? A. I have not estimated the distance between any two. 11 Q. How near must those check lines be to each other to ena ble the surveyor to detect a miscount of one chain in the measurement of the exterior lines? A. He could detect an error of one chain probably in ten miles, if the work was well done. If his latitude and departure showed an error or difference of one chain in ten miles, he ought to run that work over again. 12 Q. What evidence have you that the survey was so corrected by a calculation on the ground? A. I have none at all. 13 Q. Do the check lines of Mr. Trumpbour aid in fixing the location of the exterior lines, with respect to the canal itself? A. Not unless be noted the margin of the water on both sides of the canal at the time he measured the cheek line. 14 Q. Upon what objects or measurements is Mr. Trumpbour compelled chiefly to rely for determining at any future day the exact location of the different lines and angles of his survey? A. The objects and measurements noted in his field book. 15 Q. What are those objects, so far as you have observed? A. Dwelling-houses, factories, locks, bridges, marked trees, I think are mentioned, culverts, waste-wiers, meeting-houses; his references are so numerous I cannot repeat them all without reference to his field notes. 16 Q. Look at a map of Mr. Trumpbour's survey, and say, are not the exterior lines of the State property run many feet outside of either end of bridges; and where the lines do not intersect objects, should not the course and distance be taken to particular parts of those objects? A. From his rongh map it appears that the exterior line of the State property is laid down outside of the bridges. Whether the line actually run on the ground is outside of the bridges or not, I cannot certainly say. [To the other part of the interrogatory the witness replies,] If the object is one which is temporary, and likely to be soon removed, I should not note it, if I had designated a permanent one within a short distance; but if it were permanent, and the distance from the last permanent object required it, I should note it, with the distance and bearing to some particular part of it; especially if it stood within the line of the State property; and if outside, I should take the bearing and distance, unless I had done so to some other permanent object. 17 Q. Do you not, in your examination of Mr. Trumpbour's feld-notes, find that he frequently refers to bridges, by saying to about the middle of the bridge, or to bridge, without designating any point of it? A. I think I recollect entries where he mentions the centre of the bridge, and others to the bridge; I cannot say how frequently they occur. 18 Q. In stating, as you have done, that you do not discover in Mr. Hutchinson's field-book or maps any reference to permanent objects by courses and distances, except to the quoin-posts of the locks, are the committee to understand that there are no references to other permanent objects? And further, does not the base line of Mr. Hutchinson's survey pass directly across the waste-weirs, aqueducts and bridges, in such a manner as to render a reference to them by courses and distances unnecessary? A. To the first part of this interrogatory the witness says: So far as I understand his field-book, I have not discovered any others. And to the residue he says: I cannot say whether the base line passes over those objects or not, unless we are to understand that a line running along the inner edge of the tow-path would, as a matter of course, pass over them. 19 Q. Will you look at Mr. Hutchinson's map and say whether the base line does or does not intersect the line of each bridge, and is not the distance noted? A. On the map it appears that the base line does cross the bridges, but what part of the bridges does not appear; the distance on the base line to the bridge is stated or given from the last station. 20 Q. Does the specimens of field-book presented by Mr. Trumpbour give the courses and distances of each piece of land ta ken from any individual, or does it give the courses and distances of two sides only? A. In answer to this question I can only say, that he has noted division lines between individual owners; if he has noted them all, then he has the courses and distances surrounding every piece of land. If he has neglected to measure the distance across the canal upon those division lines, and has given the course only, he will then be under the necessity of calculating their length by the aid of his check lines. 21 Q. Will you look at Mr. Trumpbour's field-notes, and state whether he has therein noted the distances across the canal on the line of the property of each individual, or the courses of those lines only? A. As far as I have examined the field-notes, I think his practice has been generally to take the courses only. 22 Q. Will you look at Mr. Trumpbour's field-notes, and state how many check lines across the canal you find noted from BlackRock lock to Pendleton? A. I cannot satisfactorily determine from the field notes where those two points are; the field-notes taken on the ground, from their nature, are better understood by the person who made them than by any other. After they are put in form they ought to be understood by every body. 23 Q. How many check lines are noted in Mr. Trumpbour's field notes, from Pendleton to the west bridge in Lockport, a distance of seven miles? [To this interrogatory the witness gives the same answer as to the last.] 24 Q. In determining hereafter the location of the outlines of Mr. Trumpbour's survey, upon which would you place the principal reliance, the courses of the lines as obtained with the compass, or upon offsets to the cana!? A. I should place it upon the compass rather than upon offsets to the water's edge. 25 Q. Will you look at the plans and field-notes of Mr. Trumpbour's survey, now before the committee, and state whether it appears from then that he was in the habit of designating the bearings of his outlines to fractions of a degree less than one half? A. He was. He has noted quarters. 26 Q. How great an error may arise in any one instance, admitting the bearing to be given to the nearest quarter of a degree? A. If the course taken leads from the one object to the other, there will be no error. If not, the error will be so much as the course noted departs from the true line. 27 Q. If the true course should be a departure of seven minutes from the one noted, how much variation would that produce in a distance of one mile? A. About seventeen links. 28 Q. So long as the inner edge of the towing-path adopted by Mr. Hutchinson as his base line remains unchanged, or can be restored, can the extent of any encroachment be at any time ascertained from his survey by measurement only without compass? A. If the inner edge of the tow-path is so permanent that there will be no difficulty of ascertaining its true place at any time bereafter, and that so definitely as to determine the point where the base line lies, then, after measuring the base line between the two offsets, and the length of those offsets, the exterior lines can be ascertained, if there is nothing to obstruct the view from one to the other, in which case the extent of the encroachment might be ascertained; but to do it with accuracy, a compass would be necessary, to find the courses of the offsets, and the angular points of the base line. 29 Q. Look at any maps of Mr. Trumpbour's survey, for instance those of Rochester and Lockport, and say, do or do not the lines on the exterior bounds, give the exact lengh of the canal? As to the map of Rochester, although it gives the courses and distances of the exterior bounds of the State property, it does not give the exact length of the canal, as would a line run in the middle of the canal waters. As to the map of Lockport, it does not appear to give the length of the canal; it gives the courses and distances on one side only; it does not appear to be finished. 30 Q. What is the present variation of the magnetic needle from the true or astronomical meridian, and is that variation east or west? A. It is about three years since I took an observation for the purpose of determining its variations. I have not the miun:es f made at that time, with me, neither do I recollect distinctly what I found it to be, and cannot say what it is now. The variation now is west of north. 31 Q. Is the variation of the magnetic needle the same in all parts of the State? A. I have made observations in Columbia county only. 32 Q. Is it uniformly the same in the same place? A. It is not. 33 Q. Is the increase and decrease in the variation uniform, or is it sometimes variable and at other times retrograde? A. The annual variation is uniform, either east or west, so far as I have discovered; I have not been in the habit of taking observations for the purpose of ascertaining the variation, oftener than once in four or five years. 34 Q. You say there is no check in the plan of survey adopted by Mr. Hutchinson; do you intend to say that the inner edge of the towing-path may not be used to correct the errors of the magnetic needle? A. If the inner edge of the towing-path were permanent, it would control courses and distances both, as they must always yield to permanent object; but in running one line, if any errors are committed, I know of no means of correcting it but by a resurvey; this is what I mean in my direct examination. 35 Q. Can or cannot the distance upon the base line along the inner edge of the towing-path, be measured with more precision, and the location of that line be fixed with greater facility and exactness, by reference to permanent objects, than either of the exteior lines of State property. A. With respect to the first branch of the inquiry, it would depend upon the care and labor bestowed in running the lines. The location of the base line, can be found with greater facility than either of the exterior lines, if there are an equal number of near and convenient permanent objects; but as to the exactness with which the work may be executed, I do not think there is any difference. 36 Q. Can you, upon Mr. Trumpbour's map and field notes, ascertain, without measurement or calculation, either the distance on the out bounds, or the quantity of land taken from any individual; if so, state the place? A. Not without calculation. Direct examination on the part of Mr. Trumpbour. 37 Q. Is it usual for surveyors to insert traverse calculations in their field notes or on their maps? A. I have never known an instance of it that I remember. 38 Q. Will the measurements of the base line upon Mr. Hutchinson's plan, give the exact length of the canal ? A. Not as exact as if measured in the middle of the canal. 39 Q. Which of the two plans of survey, that of Mr. Trumpbour or Mr. Hutchinson, furnishes the best means of correcting the vari ation of the magnetic needle, when the permanent objects noted by each, are taken into consideration? A. Mr. Trumpbour's. 40 Q. By Mr. Hutchinson's mode of survey, as it appears from his map and field book, what permanent objects would there be to regulate his survey upon that part of the Erie canal where there are no locks, as between Canastota and the first lock east of Utica, there being no locks for the distance of about forty miles? . A. Upon his plan, as he has performed it upon the Champlain canal, I see no reference to permanent objects by which his line could be definitely determined or ascertained, but at the locks. Cross-examined by Mr. Hutchinson. 41 Q. What objects are referred to in Mr. Trumpbour's survey, by which the variations of the magnetic needle may be more accurately determined than in Mr. Hutchinson's? A. Dwelling houses, meeting houses, saw mills, carding machines, stores, bridges, culverts, aqueducts; Mr. Hutchinson not having noted those objects, that I recollect, at the point of his line, so as to be able to locate the place definitely, where his line passed them. Taken and sworn in the committee the 16th May, 1832. J. HAMMOND, Chairman. AUGUSTUS TREMAIN. (No. 27.) Holmes Hutchinson's Deposition. IN COMMITTEE-17th May, 1832, Mr. HOGEBOOM, Mr. HAMMOND, Chairman. Mr. Livingston and Mr. Cheever, of cousel for Mr. Hutchinson, moved to examine Holmes Hutchinson as a witness. Objected to by Mr. Viele, of counsel for Jacob Trumpbour, on the ground that having appeared as a memorialist before the Legislature, in opposition to Mr. Trumpbour, and appeared in the same manner before the committee, in person and by counsel, and it being manifest from the whole course of the testimony that he has a direct personal interest in the matters investigated, he ought not to be admitted or examined as a witness. Mr. Livingston answers, insisting on the propriety of his examina tion. Holmes Hutchinson, one of the memorialists, sworn and examined, deposes and says: 1 Q. Will you state what has taken place between yourself and Mr. Trumpbour, relative to his being permitted to take a contract |