A. I did not in all cases. None were however omitted which would affect the accurary of the survey.

Present the Committee.-May 4th, 1832.

84 Q. What persons had you in assisting you in surveying the

canals?

A. All I can at present recollect are eight in number, viz: Rugene Webster, Silas Hutchinson, Walker, Loomis, George Loomis, Washburn, Kittrick and Buel.

85 Q. How many persons besides yourself were actually employed in making the said survey at the same time?

A. Usually about six, viz: two chainmen, one flagman, two axemen and a boatman.

86 Q. Who passed along the berm side to regulate the stations there?

A. The duty was not performed by the same person throughout. Loomis, Washburn, and I believe Hutchinson and Kittrick, were at times engaged in that duty.

87 Q. What time did you finish surveying the Champlain ca

nal?

Between the middle and latter part of August in 1830. 88 Q. At what time did you quit surveying in the fall of 1829, and at what time did you begin again in the spring of 1830?

A. I quit in the fall about the last of November, and commenced about the first of May following.

89 Q. Did you finish the whole of the Erie canal before you began the Champlain ?

A. I finished that portion which I surveyed.

90 Q. Was there any other surveyor employed on that part of the canal which you surveyed?

A.

There was not.

Present the committee.-May 11th, 1832.

Further examination of the same witness.

By the counsel of Mr. Hutchinson.

91 Q. How far did the locating of the stations in the outlines of the State property on the berm and other side of the canal, come under your personal observation in making the survey of the Champlain canal?

A. The measurements were all made under my immediate direction and observation.

92 Q. Were there not more persons than one to note down the measurements with the chain to insure accuracy?

A. The count was kept by both chainmen, and the manner in which the field minutes were kept, rendered it necessary that my own attention should constantly be directed to the measures with the chain.

93 Q. Has the acting Canal Commissioner passed along the line of the Champlain canal since the completion of the survey, and did

he not in many places direct alterations, in the amount of land included in the survey?

A. Yes.

94 Q. Do the field books and map now before the committee exhibit the survey as corrected by the Commissioner?

A. They contain all the corrections that were suggested on that examination of the canal.

95 Q. (By the counsel of Mr. Trumpbour.) Did you take the observations upon the exterior bounds of the State property by which to determine the extreme points of your offsets? and if so, did you take those observations standing upon the towing-path, or did you pass to the exterior bounds from side to side for that purpose?

A. The observations were taken by me in both of the ways mentioned.

96 Q. What proportion of them were taken by you, being at that time at the exterior bounds?

A. I am not able to say.

97 Q. Were one-fourth part of them so taken ?

A.

I am not able to say whether they were or not.

98 Q. Did you set stakes or other monuments at all the extreme points of your survey, and if not at all, what proportion of them as near as you can state?

A. In the majority of cases, stakes or other monuments were not set at the extremes of the offsets, for the reason that they could be of little or no use for the purposes of reference hereafter.

99 Q. Were stakes or monuments so set in as many as one-fourth part of such extreme points, according to your recollection and best judgment?

Å. I should think they were not; but am not able to speak certainly.

100 Q. Did you bisect one-fourth of the angles of your base line with the compass on the ground?

A. The angles were so bisected in all cases where stakes were set at the extremes of the offsets.

101 Q. Was that so done in any cases except at basins, ponds and other places where you found it necessary to survey around the exterior bounds, and if so, in what other places?

A. It was, but am not able to name the places.

102 Q. Have you any other maps, books or documents under your power or control, relating to the lands of the State along the lines of the canals, except those made by you appertaining to the survey which is now the subject of controversy, other than such as you now produce before the committee, and such as were referred to and described by you in your former deposition?

A. I have not to my knowledge.

103 Q. Do the books, maps or documents now produced by you contain a description of the bounds of the State property?

A. They do not, with the exception of the document from the Comptroller's office, marked, In Committee, Exhibit K. 11th May,

1832.

Taken and sworn, &c.

in Committee.

J. HAMMOND, Chairman..

EDWIN F. JOHNSON.

Lucas Elmendorf, a witness produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialet, being sworn, deposes as follows:

1 Q. Where do you reside, and how long have you been acquainted with Jacob Trumpbour?

A. I reside at Kingston, Ulster county; I have been acquainted with Judge Trumpbour as much as forty years, I should think.

2 Q. What are his reputation and standing as a surveyor?

A. I think as good as those of any person. His principal time has been occupied in that branch of business since my first acquaintance with him.

3 Q. Will you please to look at the letter addressed by Jacob Trumpbour to the Canal Commissioners, under date of 28th March, 1829, as printed in his memorial, commencing on page 15, and state by whom, or at whose suggestion the words, "in consequence of a received impression," were inserted in said letter? Declare the facts relative thereto fully.

A. I happened to be lodging in the same house with Jacob Trumpbour, on the 28th of March, 1829, in the city of Albany. I was the year before perfectly acquainted with the fact, that he had made application to the Canal Commissioners to become the surveyor of the canals, and I was consulted by him as a friend, relative to his making such first application; at the time it was made, it was understood that the Canal Commissioners required the proposition to be made for surveying the canals, conformable to the act of the Legislature, and for a definite or specific amount of compensation. I did not receive this information from the Canal Cominissioners, but it was then understood that such was the nature of the proposition which they required; and I think I assisted or advised Mr. Trumpbour in framing his proposition, so as to conform to it. On the 28th March, 1829, a letter was prepared by Jacob Trumpbour, for the purpose of sending to the Canal Commissioners. That letter was submitted to myself and General Fuller, and at our suggestion certain words were struck out, and the words, " in consequence of a received impression," inserted.

4 Q. Do you recollect the words struck out of said letter at your suggestion, or the substance of them? If you do, declare?

A. I do not recollect the words, but the substance of them seemed to assert, in rather too positive a manner, his right to make another proposition, on the ground that the Commissioners had received a conditional proposition from Mr. Hutchinson. Whereas, at the time he made his first proposition, he understood the Canal Commissioners as requiring the proposal to be unconditional. I judged it would be more courteous, and perhaps have a better effect, to couch the letter in milder terms.

5 Q. (By the Committee.) Do you know any other matter or thing material to the interest of the State, or either of the memorialists? If yea, declare the same fully.

A. I do not.

William K. Fuller, a witness produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows:

1 Q. Were you present at the time and transaction relative to the letter of the 28th March, 1829, spoken of by Lucas Elmendorf, in his deposition taken in this matter?

A. I was present.

2 Q. Were you present at his examination before this committee, and did you hear his statement on that examination?

A. I did.

3 Q. Is his statement, as set out in his deposition, correct and true, according to your knowledge and recollection?

A. It is correct so far as it relates to the alteration of the letter by our advice, and the reasons for so doing; so far as it relates to Mr. Elmondorf's previous information I am not informed.

4 Q. (By the Committee.) Do you know any other matter or thing material to the interest of the State, or either of the memorialists? If yea, declare the same fully and particularly, as if you were thereunto specifically interrogated.

A. I do not recollect any thing material.

Sworn the 26th April,

1832, before me,

J. HAMMOND, Chairman.

W. K. FULLER.

(No. 9.)

William C. Trumpbour's Deposition.

IN COMMITTEE-Present as before.

William C. Trumpbour, a witness produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows: } 1 Q. Were you engaged in assisting your father, Jacob Trumpbour, in surveying the canals in 1829 and 1830?

A. I was.

2 Q. What duty did you there perform?

A. I was a chain bearer.

3 Q. Did you assist throughout the whole survey of the Cayuga and Seneca and the Oswego canals, and that part of the Erie canal west of Canastota ?

A. I did.

4 Q. Where did you commence said survey, and at what time? A. We commenced at Port-Byron on the 24th of June, 1829. 5 Q. Was your father taken ill soon after he commenced said survey?

A. He was.

6 Q. How much of said survey had he made before he was so taken ill?

A. About eight miles.

7 Q. At what place or places?

A. From Port-Byron to Montezuma lock, and from Port-Byron to Centerville.

8 Q. How long did your father remain ill, and at what time did he recommence the survey after his recovery?

A. He remained ill from the 7th of July until the 25th August, on which latter day he recommenced his survey.

9 Q. Before his illness did Henry Seymour, acting Canal Commissioner, come to the place where he was surveying the canal ? A. He did.

10 Q. At what particular place and time did he so come?

A. At the junction at Montezuma, on the 26th of June, 1829. 11 Q. On which side of the canal was your father, and what was he doing when Mr. Seymour so came to him?

A. He was on the berm side, writing in his field book.

12 Q. Did your father do any thing appertaining to the survey while Mr. Seymour was present; and if he did, what was it?

A. He did; he put a stake where the compass stood, and took a check line course and distance across the Erie canal to the station, and noted the same in his field book.

13 Q. Did he enter into conversation with Mr. Seymour at that time in relation to the said survey?

A. He did.

14 Q. Do you recollect that conversation, or the substance of it? If you do, relate what passed relative thereto.

A. I do. My father stated to him the manner in which he was surveying the canal, and Mr. Seymour expressed himself satisfied with it. My father pointed to a building on the towing-path side,