system was correct. Certainly I believe that the fliction of duty. Another thing, the gentleman Irish system in its details may be very greatly from Columbia [Mr. Gould] speaks, in allusion to improved. But, sir, if the Irish system is intro- the argument of the gentleman from Cayuga [Mr. duced, then this isolated relation of our prisons C. C. Dwight], with reference to the captain of a ceases in this State. I think it is one of the ship. The board of underwriters or owners of greatest difficulties of our system that our prisons the ship are the parties who control its destiny. are isolated. If that system is introduced we If they order the captain to proceed to Liverpool, want to have one prison for each special purpose. he has no right, under those orders, to diverge We want one for a preliminary stage of solitary and go to South America; but he has a right, as confinement. We want, after the men have a matter of course, to control in the discipline of passed through the ordeal of solitary confine- his ship, to take command of it and direct its ment, the penal stage of their imprisonment, that course in case of a storm or mutiny. So with they should go into a second, the educational reference to the warden of the prison. There are stage, in a separate prison. Another prison after laid down by the board of supervision certain that we want for the intermediate stage; and general rules which he is to follow; but as existill another for the final stage. If the Irish sys-gencies may arise, from time to time, either from tem, or any thing like it, is to be introduced-and a mutinous disposition on the part of the prisonI beg that the members of this Convention ers or an attempt on the part of some one or would bear this in mind-there must be a mutual more of them to break out, he may take charge interdependence between the different prisons. of the government of the prison and use his disThey must be managed as a unity. Each one of cretion: and he is bound to use it, the same as the prisons must be a link in the chain. The ob- the captain of a ship, in the absence of the ownject of the new system is the formation of a ers, who are on land while he is at sea, has entire chain, and if any link therefore of the chain is in- control within the purview of the instructions jured or destroyed, the value of the chain at given to him when he originally started upon his once is destroyed also. There must be a perfect voyage, so in this case. The cases are analogous. interdependency between them, if this improve-It seems to me that the comparison is perfect, as ment that we are all looking for is ever to be in- made by the gentleman from Cayuga [Mr. C. C. troduced. Sir, I think that I have answered all Dwight]; and there can be no question with rethe arguments which have been adduced. I gard to it whatever. The gentleman from Clinton think I have shown that they are illusory. I[Mr. Axtell] suggests, to cure the difficulty of the have but to say, in conclusion, that I have no waste of time in traveling which will be caused pride of opinion in regard to this matter. During by having a single head, the appointment of a the long period of time that I have devoted my- local board of visitors. What does that local self to this subject, the conviction has grown board of visitors amount to? They have no power stronger and stronger in my mind that any hope of appointment; they have no power of removal; of a real and radical reformation of these numer- they have no power of punishment; they have ous evils which I think we have clearly demon-no power to dictate the course which shall be strated to exist in the prison system-I think pursued in the management of the prison; they they can only be cured by the substitution of the simply go there as any other set of individuals responsibility of a single head. I have given all may go there, to see and to examine the detai's the arguments that have occurred to me; I have of the management of the prison; and if they see replied to all the objections that have been made, any thing out of the way as a matter of course all and now, if on mature examination of the subject they can do is to come up here to the supreme this Convention is convinced that I am mistaken head, at Albany, and report what, in their 'judgin this matter, I can only say that all I want is ment, is a departure from the rules which should the improvement of prisons, and I shall cheer- govern the prison. In truth, it amounts to fully submit to their judgment, whatever that nothing at all; for they have no authority and judgment may be. they can do no more than any reputable citizen can do who chooses to visit the prisons and examine into the details of their management, for they have no more right or authority.

Mr. GOULD-The article provides that the Legislature shall give the board of visitors such powers as they may judge proper.

Mr. ALVORD—I have but a very few words to say in answer to the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Axtell] and the gentleman from Columbia [Mr. Gould], who have undertaken to draw, in this debate, the idea of similarity between the establishment of the superintendent of canals, or of public works, and the establishment of the Mr. ALVORD-I understand that. I would like superintendent of State prisons. Gentlemen will to know what pov'ers the gentleman proposes recollect that so far as regards the canals of the that the Legislature shall give to this board of State, the superintendent who is there named is local visitors. He wants a unification in this simply the superintendent over the working and matter. The board of local visitors at Auburn management of the navigation of the canals, and may have views and ideas entirely different from has nothing whatever to do with the finances in the board of local visitors at Clinton; and thus any way, shape or manner. He has nothing to you have at once inharmonious action. If you do with the appointment of the financial officers give them any power beyond the power of exwho are to take care of that part of the canal amining and reporting at Albany upon the abuses management. It is simply a superintendence over existing in the different institutions, the moment the working matter of canals; and the superin- you give them any power whatever beyond that tendent is answerable directly to the commission-point, the moment you give them a right to dicers of the canal fund and the Governor for dere-tate with regard to the removal of officers, or the

manner in which the discipline shall be adminis- then he can go to Clinton prison in a single day. tered, you make an inharmonious system through-It takes just two days to go the rounds of the out the State far worse than the present system. prisons. That is all there is about it. The gen-. You must concentrate the controlling power to tleman must, see, therefore, that if this is all the secure harmony. I agree with the gentleman objection, it is no objection at all. It seems to form Columbia [Mr. Gould] as to the importance me that the superintendent of prisons may learn of having a head for the State prisons who shall every thing in relation to any prison after he has be responsible for the performance of its duties. become familiar with the general details of its But under the system which is reported it strikes management, in these days. If he knows wheré me that it is a physical and mental impossibility to look, if he knows the right spots to look at he for any one individual to perform the duties de- may, in three days, make himself a perfect masvolved upon the head of State prisons. This ter of all its details. Now, suppose he starts on talk about the army, whether the army has or Monday morning from Sing Sing-on Monday has not produced more or less crime, whether the evening he arrives at Auburn. He devotes three soldiers are or are not, so far as regards their num- days to the examination of the prison at Auburn. bers, in greater abundance in the State prisons He takes one day to go to Clinton, and he devotes than any other portion of the community; whether three days to the examination of the prison at the Irish system is a right system, or a wrong Clinton, and then he returns to his home at Sing system-all this has nothing whatever to do with Sing, or at any one of the prison districts. That this matter, how we can best arrange the is all there is about it. He may make twelve exgovernment of the prisons of the State, and what aminations in a year, and that is all that is necesmeans for that purpose we shall put in our Con- sary, without seriously discommoding him, or stitution. That is all we have to decide; and all taking up an undue portion of his time. It is this long talk with reference to the history of perfectly practicable to do this, and if there is no State prisons in other parts of the world, it other objection than that it is certainly no objecseems to me is entirely surplusage; because I tion at all. do not understand the gentleman from Colum- Mr. AXTELL-The gentleman from Onondaga bia [Mr. Gould], or the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Alvord] leaves entirely out of his mind the [Mr. Axtell] to be making up a code, or to un- fact that this superintendent of prisons may, by dertake to say that all this legislative enactment the action of the Legislature, receive assistance. is to be placed in the Constitution; but they only There is nothing in this article that forbids the hope that certain results will grow up out of this appointment, if it should be necessary, of a deputy organization, which we propose to put in the Con- superintendent of prisons. There can be given stitution, through legislative enactment in the fu- to this superintendent all the assistance that he ture. When we shall have disposed of the ques-may require in the discharge of his duties, and I tion, whether they shall be placed under the maintain that the plan that is proposed by the charge of a board, or under one superintendent, majority of this committee simply provides for a then we shall have got over the whole obstacle; responsible head. As all the experience in this and beyond that it seems to me, that all this State has hitherto shown, even by the arguments argument should go for nothing. I trust, there- of the gentleman himself, boards with a divided fore, that the gentlemen of this commit- responsibility are a failure. The gentleman, of tee and this Convention, will come to the course, remembers that I said simply that I conclusion that 80 far as regards this availed myself of the latitude afforded in the Commatter of the officers who shall, in the first in-mittee of the Whole to correct a certain impresstance, be entitled to the jurisdiction of the State prisons, it shall be removed as far from politics as possible; and it shall be placed in the power of the Governor and Senate of the State to appoint these men. Then the simple question with regard to the proposition is the question of the responsibility of these parties who are to perform the duties that shall be intrusted to them; and I go against the proposition of the gentleman from Columbia [Mr. Gould], not because I believe there is to be any great amount of power put into the hands of any single superintendent,. but from the impossibility of one man doing the work which is in his proposition devolved upon his shoulders to .do.

Mr. GOULD-I only wish to say a single word in relation to the argument of the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord]-that this article imposes upon any individual an absolute physical impossibility. There is nothing whatever in the argument. Suppose the superintendent of State prisons is at Sing Sing; it is perfectly easy for him to go from Sing Sing to Auburn in a single day. That is all there is about it. He may go to Auburn and spend a few days, or a week, and

sion, and I am sure that I was not acting without precedent, because there has been, as we know, great latitude taken in our discussion. I think, Mr. Chairman, that the allusion to the length of the arguments on this subject comes with a peculiar propriety and justice from the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord], inasmuch as he never makes long speeches, and never has, on this floor.

Mr. BELL-Before this question is taken, I wish to avail myself of the opportunity to say a word or two on this subject. I shall be very brief, and confine my remarks to the practical operation of the present State prison system. Both reports unite in condemning the system. They assert that it cannot be remedied so long as the practice of electing the principal officers prevails. The management of our prisons should be divorced from politics. By the present management they have degenerated into mere political machines. The great objects for which they were created and are kept in existence have been entirely overlooked. Instead of being institutions for the reformation of the criminals of our State, they are becoming hospitals for worn out politicians. I

to

do not wish to apply this term to the inspectors | fraught with untold evil. Under it no plan of of our prisons, but to assert that they are poli-economy or discipline can be successfully carried ticians, and their respective parties compel them out. No valuable reforms can be accomplished make appointments that would not be under it however faithful and well qualified the made were these matters left to their own choice. inspectors may be. The "perfect failure" so These appointments, in many instances, and in forcibly depicted by my friend from Columbia fact in most instances, are of a very unsuitable may be found here. Nor is it strange, from this character. Men are placed over criminals that complication of errors inherent in our present have no just appreciation of the duties. Instead system that criminals should come out of our of exercising a salutary influence over the morals prisons worse men than they were when they of these criminals, their influence is in many in- went in. As I have already intimated, stances the very reverse. Now, sir, aside from our prison system is equally defective in a the evils which the present system brings into financial point of view. Large sums are anour prisons, the theory of inspectors, as provided nually drawn from the State treasury for their in the present Constitution, is founded in error. support! But it frequently turns out that In some particulars they have too much power; from a defective contract or a claim for damain other instances too little. The Legislature has ges, the amount returned is very small. placed many of the duties which they formerly Some few years ago contractors were not required possessed into the hands of the wardens. I to pay promptly. The amount due the State admit they appoint the wardens, but when ap-on these contracts reached a large sum-over one pointed, they (the wardens) become the financial hundred thousand dollars, if I remember rightly. officers of the prisons. They are also charged It may have exceeded that amount. The utter with the discipline of the convicts and under- failure of our system in its financial aspect was officers, over whose appointment or dismissal fully illustrated in the efforts to collect the they have no control However unsuitable the amounts due on these contracts. It was amusing subordinate officers may be for the positions to to listen to the various excuses which the conwhich they have been appointed, the only pre-tractors assigned for non-payment. Some claimed regative the warden possesses is the power to that the labor had not been faithfully performed; suspend during the absence of the inspectors in charge at the time. In most cases the derelict officer is reinstated by the inspectors, when he should have been dismissed, because his appointment was made, in the first instance, to gratify some political friend. In this particular the warden has too little power. The power and responsibility of discipline should carry with it the power to appoint and dismiss. The warden is also the financial agent of the prison, charged with all disbursements.

others, that the prison discipline was bad; others still, that by the change of times they had lost money. The Legislature finally authorized the inspectors to close up these suspended contracts in the best manner possible, which they finally did at a large loss to the State. Whatever number of officers you may provide to take the charge of these prisons, you will fail to accomplish the object in view under the contract system. The contractors resort to every conceivable device to make money. In some instances they

Mr. GOULD-The practice under the present stimulate the convict with liquors, and with the system is that the inspector always signs the requisition. The Comptroller pays no requisitions unless the inspectors sign it.

promise of extra pay he is worked over time. By such practices and many others of a kindred character, the proper discipline of our prisons is Mr. BELL-I am aware of that, Mr. Chairman, destroyed and the criminals demoralized, for even but this requisition is made up by the warden or criminals may be demoralized. The experiments his clerk, and is signed as a matter of course. at Clinton prison, where, for the last few years, This money is drawn one month in advance of the State employs the inmates of that prison in its use, and the clerk audits and pays these bills the manufacture of iron and nails, prove that it on his own responsibility, submitting them to the is for the pecuniary interest of the State, as well inspectors at the end of each month. They are as the reformation of the criminal, to dispense then sent to the Comptroller as vouchers for the with contractors. All the reports from this Comexpenditures of the previous month. Now, sir, Imittee on Prisons and the Prevention of Crime have been unable to ascertain precisely the neces-agree in condemning the present system and in sity of inspectors of State prisons; I know the recommending a change. In these particulars I Constitution provides for that class of officers, am pleased to learn that all the members of that and there are certain duties prescribed for them committee agree. The most important difference by our laws, but these duties can well be trans- that I observe between these two reports is that ferred to some other officer. We were informed one confers the charge of our prisons upon a by the gentleman from Columbia [Mr. Gould] on single individual, while the other provides for Saturday, how the contracts are made. To be their government by a board to be composed of five sure they are signed by the inspectors; but from five persons. When the article on the managethe peculiar wording of the contract it frequently ment of our canals was under discussion, I took turns out when payments became due that the occasion to express myself in favor of an un.. amounts coming to the State are much less than divided responsibility - an individual head. the inspectors anticipated. Many of the evils of I think that the same line of argument that was our present system may be attributed to the laws then indulged in by myself and those who favorthat require the inspectors to remain in charge ed an individual head, or a direct and personal of any one prison but four months in a year. responsibility clause, will apply with equal force This rotary system, as I may characterize it, is to our State prisons. The objection urged by

was to break up the centralization of power that then existed at Albany. In this particular, at least, its framers went too far. They took the opposite extreme of giving us too great a diffusion of power, by divesting individuals of responsibility, and placing it in a board, or a commission, or a committee. I do not say that I would return to all the provisions of the Constitution of 1821. I think I would not; but I think that this Convention might pursue a medium or a mean course between these two extremes; and wherever we find that the provisions of the present Constitution have failed to accomplish the object sought by the framers of that instrument, we should have sufficient courage and independence to correct what time has proved to be wrong. Before taking my seat I ought, perhaps, to say that in these remarks it has not been my purpose to bring a

some who have spoken on this subject is that to be a benefactor to his race, to elevate and rethe appointment of an individual head would form the criminal, and to procure that meed of be conferring too much responsibility upon fame and renown which always follows fidelity in one man. I think this has been fully an- any department of life. Now, sir, I hope this swered, and that the management of our State Convention may wisely consider this subject, and prisons does not involve so much responsibility will not be deterred from following its own conas would the exclusive charge and management victions of duty because we find in the Constituof our canals. Many of the private mercantile tion of 1846 a provision for three inspectors. establishments of our cities conduct operations There is much to be admired and commended in much more extensive than our prisons. Our that instrument. It is, in many respects, a noble railroads are managed by a single chief su- foundation for legislative action, but the theory perintendent. Our most successful manufactur-upon which many of the provisions were framed ing establishments are usually under direction of one controlling mind. The public mind is rapidly reaching the conclusion that a divided responsibility is in fact no responsibility. When the number is large the individual responsibility is small; in fact, it is difficult to fasten the responsibility of a wrong act upon any one. It will be shifted from one to the other till the interests of the State must suffer in the end; and so it is from one prison to another, and from one term to another, the responsibility is shifted from one officer to another until it is impossible to place your finger upon an individual and say, 46 Thou art the man." Hence the large losses from contractors, the laxity of the discipline of the prison, and the lack of economy and efficiency generally. One gentleman met the objection by recommending that deputy superintendents might be appointed. It seems to me that this remedy railing acquisition" against any member of the would be much worse than the disease. There present board of State prison inspectors, or their is no difficulty in procuring an individual who is predecessors. I would not thus publicly impugn able to control this entire system, and to manage the official conduct or private character of any our State prisons as the farmer would manage his one of them. Therefore let me be distinctly unfarm or the merchant his store. It is not the derstood as inveighing against the system only. amount of labor they may be required to perform, To my personal knowledge this board has been it is simply that he shall possess correct views in filled by men of pure characters and spotless life. regard to prison discipline, and the financial inter- I have, at this moment, in my mind, a personal ests of the State. The provision in the majority friend who, for two terms, discharged the duties report providing for a warden of each of the State of inspector with the utmost fidelity, and to prisons, to be appointed by the Governor, meets the general acceptance of all concerned. But this objection clearly and fully. These wardens at the next two State Conventions, although are under the control of the superintendent and the first choice of a large majority of are his executive officers; therefore deputy super- the delegates, he was sacrificed by what was intendents are utterly useless. I see no objection, termed "political necessity," and for the avowed sir, to a board of local visitors. Let it be com- purpose of balancing the State ticket geographposed of gentlemen who have given this subject ically. A new and untried man was put in his their attention; let them make monthly or semi- place. Should this Convention decide to adopt monthly visits to these prisons, examine the the majority report, no better man could be found books, examine the discipline, examine the whole to superintend our prisons than he. Should the control of the prison, and be required to report report so eloquently advocated by my friend from through the superintendent to the Legislature Cayuga [Mr. C. C. Dwight] prevail, I doubt not, annually. This would have a salutaty influ- from his desire to do good in this direction, he ence upon the superintendent. However honest might accept a place, even without pay, as the and well qualified a man may be, it may be well section provides, on the board thereby created. for him to understand that there is some super-He possesses all those high qualities of head and vising or investigating power over him; some one, even if he has not the power of removal or of direction, he is able to report his delinquencies and commend his fidelity. Why, sir, no man is fit to occupy the place of superintendent of State prisons or superintendent of public works that has not well matured ideas of the importance and dignity of the position. No man is fit for this position who seeks it merely for the salary, or the position it gives him in the State. He should be a man who is seeking to distinguish himself in this particular department of labor; who seeks

heart which have been deemed so necessary in the successful management and discipline of our prisons. His favorite profession, that of medicine, pre-eminently qualifies him for the position. I refer to Dr. James K. Bates, of Jefferson.

Mr. GRAVES-I have looked over the report made by the majority of this committee, as well as the report made by the minority. The main features of the report made by the majority are concurred in by the minority. The historical part accompanying the report of the majority shows clearly that this committee, at least the

perhaps from motives of seeming necessity. He has been stripped of the ordinary comforts of life, or of the means of subsistence, and in an unguarded moment, under the influence of intoxicating liquors, he commits the offense. Now, sir, he must be sent to the State prison, for he is convicted of the offense of stealing twenty-six dollars, or one dollar more than would send him to the county jail. Now, in my judgment, the law is wrong. There is no discretion left to the court by which these palliating circumstances can be taken into consideration, and he has to be sent to prison. He serves, it may be, two years, or, per

chairman of the committee, has bestowed great, is led into this perhaps in a state of dissipationlabor and great attention upon this subject; and perhaps the first in his life. He may be led into it it as clearly shows, that there is an existing evil in the State of New York in the management of its prisons that requires the attention of every humane man, at least those who desire the reformation of these offenders. Without referring at this time to the particular mode adopted by either the majority or the minority report, I desire to call the attention of the committee for a few moments to what I believe to be a much greater evil in the management of criminals than in the construction of prisons, and in the administration of justice, which should be corrected before it gets to the conviction of the criminal, by enactments, which would reach the criminal in a more salu-haps, if the offense is of another form, it may be tary way than can be reached through prison not less than five years, and there is no power withdiscipline and punishment. Sir, it has been my in the court to take into consideration the palliating fortune to be placed in a position where, for some circumstances which should be thrown around him, seventeen years, I have had to do with the ad- not to justify, but, in a measure, to excuse the ministration of the criminal law; and it has been enormity of the offense. And there is another my duty, of course, as it has been of all others in thing about it. When he is committed to prison, like positions, to attend to the trial of offenders, he is treated precisely as an old offender. The to listen to the evidence upon which the offender keeper of the prison has no power to distinguish has been convicted, and to all the palliating or between him and an old offender, or to treat him extenuating circumstances which might be as a young offender. He has no power to allow brought to bear to exculpate or in any him to keep upon his person the garments which way exonerate the prisoner charged with the he wore when he was out of prison; but he is offense. It will be recollected by this committee brought into the prison, stripped of his ordinary that we have uniform penalties in our system of habiliments, and clothed with the same streaked laws, a uniform punishment that reaches the con- coat, the same streaked pantaloons, the same vict, whether he be an old and confirmed offender streaked cap, that is put upon the man who has or one almost entirely innocent of the offense been an old offender, and has just been discharged charged to him; and when I say almost entirely from prison with barely time enough to commit innocent I mean that there are palliating and ex- a second offense, and be returned again. Sır, in tenuating circumstances which would morally my judgment, the whole principle is wrong. He exonerate him from criminality. Now, sir, the is sent to prison under such circumstances, manilaw leaves no discretion to the court. It compels festly almost innocent of crime, and yet technically the court to pass sentence upon the offender guilty, why should he be sent to the prison and not to exceed so many years and not less treated as though he were an old offender; and than so many years, and that offender who why should he be treated in that prison as though comes within the provisions of that law may he had forfeited all sympathy from his fellowbe one whose life has been spent in the man? Should all regard for him be withheld? I commission of crime, who has been perhaps do not believe this the true principle of administo the State prison, and has become a hard-tering justice. I believe there should be some ened villian, lost to all sense of duty and recreant power left with the judges, some discretion given to every obligation that he owes to society and to the community in which he lives. Now, the extreme of that punishment proposed may be ten years, and that is in the discretion of the court. The least time of that punishment may be five years, and that is in the discretion of the court; that is, the court can determine for itself whether it shall confine the criminal for ten years or five years. Now, another man may be convicted who perhaps is a young offender. It is the first offense that he has ever committed. He has stolen twenty-six dollars, one more dollar than by our statutes would have held him guilty of petit larceny, and would have made him the subject of punishment in a common jail. This one more dollar makes him a fit inmate, under our statutes, for a State prison. Perhaps, as I said before, he has never committed an offense. For aught that appears upon the trial, he has been up to that time as innocent as any other man in the community. No doubt he has been led into the commission of this offense by being associated with men experienced and adepts in crime. He

to the courts by which they could consider these palliating circumstances, could invite this testimony into the criminal tribunal, by which the offender could, to some extent, be excused for the commission of the offense, and that he should be allowed to go to prison and be treated in a different manner, surrounded by different influences, called upon to discharge different duties there, and relieved from burdens such as are imposed upon men guilty of a more aggravated offense. Although our prisons are in a very bad condition, and although our prisoners are treated as though there was not a spark of humanity left in them; although the men who are convicted and sent to State prisons are treated as though they were totally depraved, as though there was not a scintilla of noble human nature left in them, deprived of the common light that is shed upon you and me in the walks of life; and though they are hustled into dark, and dismal, and loathsome, and nasty, and filthy cells; although they are de prived of the visitation of father and the visitation of mother, and brothers, and sisters and